Dumbledore raised a dark army!

Who would win in a fight? Me, me, me, me, or la, la, la, la? No, that's a bad question. It's a horrible question. I have an actual question for you guys. Why did Harry Potter end up with Cho Chang in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix? Did he? What do you mean end up? Because everybody knows Harry Potter always gets the snitch. What? she totally ratted them out but he like he hated getting that snitch still had to do it he did it's his job but in the book it was cho cheng's best friend who ratted them out no but he was still mad at cho in the book he was mad at everyone in the book all the time yeah everyone's personality just changed just flipped for the fifth book like he's just insane cho is just insane yeah i will say when i read the fifth book i was like these people are insane this doesn't make any sense like i stopped reading the series as a kid because i hated the fifth book so much and

when i watched the fifth movie i was like oh they have like legitimate reasons for being angry like someone just died and they're grieving and also you know they're getting older and harry is maybe possessed by voldemort and so this is a really good movie that i think that it managed to make what was kind of un it didn't make sense to me in the book make perfect sense to me in the movie hello and welcome to the popcorn isn't real i'm leif eric i'm here with my brother torvald yeah that's me and my sister brita hi today we are continuing our epic breakdown of the entire harry potter franchise we're doing what we always do we're talking about harry potter Harry Potter. That's all we ever do. We're a Harry Potter podcast. We got our first bad review from Harry Potter. Yes, wow. Yeah, so he gave us one star on Apple Podcasts. We're pretty sure it was Alfonso Cuaron, yeah. Because it was right after we released the third band.

He was like, what? I saw that one star review and I was like, they didn't even say why. No, they didn't even say a thing. But if it's Alfonso Cuaron, I get it. That's because he can't deny it, Alfonso. He knows it's true. He's just back on it. Yeah, come at us, Alfonso. I would be so happy if Alfonso Cuarón listened to our podcast and gave us a one-star review. He gave us a one-star review. Oh, I bet he did. You better be happy then, because he certainly did. It was totally him. Today, we're going to be covering a plethora of the most major and most heavily impacting Harry Potter theories, including the theory that Ron cast the Imperius Curse on Hermione. What? He was fed up with his role of a worthless sidekick and decided to take matters into his own hands and win the woman of his dreams. Or I guess the woman that he always hated. Some sort of revenge. I don't know. He just wants power over her.

We're also covering the theory that Hagrid was a Death Eater. That he was working for Lord Voldemort the entire time. Furthermore, we believe that Snape was Harry's father. Whoa. And he knew it all along and throughout the movies he was trying to reconnect with Harry despite his unbelievably lacking social situational awareness abilities. And the final major theory that we're going to cover today is that Dumbledore was a dark wizard who was trying to amass an army to take on the Ministry of Magic and overthrow the Minister of Magic. You're going to have to work hard to convince me there's any evidence for that in this movie. No, no, no, definitely not. So trigger warning. If perhaps you like Ron Weasley, or you really love Dumbledore, or you really love Hagrid, or you really hate Snape, or your name is Alfonso Cuarón. I don't think we're going to attack Alfonso Cuarón again. No, we're not.

We might be saying some bad things about your favorite characters. So just keep that in mind. But thanks so much for listening. The music was provided by Christine. And remember, the popcorn is unreal. Yeah, let's go. Wrap it up. Best episode yet. This week, I just got back from London, and I went to the Harry Potter's studio tour in London. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Well, I bet they had its most iconic locations. They did. Gringotts. Gringotts. Yes, they had Gringotts. Everyone's the most iconic location in Harry Potter. They had both, like, good, you know, highly functional Gringotts where, you know, everything's nice and bright and cheery. And then they had another Gringotts set that was broken Gringotts after it gets, like, ransacked by Harry Potter and his mischievous friend. After the dragon runs rampage. In the seventh movie. And the dragon showed up and breathed fire at us. It was so scary.

i saw alan rickman's wig i saw lucius malfoy's wig i saw hermione's wig i saw so many wigs exactly what i wanted to see so this movie it starts out in little winging number four privet drive in the first movie was a real house that they filmed in but that was too difficult so for all the other movies they rebuilt the entire neighborhood as just facades but they had number four and number three pivot drive set up i've been there i went up to the door that door had no knob so like you couldn't even get in and the mail slot i love this detail the mail slot was completely inoperable which is of course because vernon nailed it shut to prevent the hogwarts acceptance letters from coming in i was like good detail there perfect it's not because it's a fake door or because they don't want fans just like shoving stuff in there whoa dude i would totally shove acceptance letters in there for harry don't worry harry i got you i got your man

unless i tell him because i'm so delusional i somehow know what happened books but don't think that they've happened in real life but are going to happen in real life even though the books were set like in the past so in the 90s yeah i did want to talk briefly about the scene where the boys are bullying harry dudley starts you know making fun of him about cedric's death and harry's understandably very upset and so he draws his wand to threaten dudley and all of dudley's friends start like laughing like this is hilarious he's threatening you with a stick as dudley's very afraid because he knows it's a wand but like it really looks like harry's just about to gouge his throat out i was like yeah yeah like with a shiv like they shouldn't be like laughing like supposedly he goes to st brutus's secure center for incredibly criminal boys they should be legitimately afraid regardless of magic is that a real place

so i have to say i really really appreciate dudley's actor's performance here yeah i think the first time he gets to like show his chops he is a very good british hooligan he's so good at it dude where is your mom he's so good man I think the peak of his acting comes after the Dementor attack when they're walking back together and Harry is carrying Dudley he has Harry in a headlock and he's pulling Harry along like a zombie as Harry struggles to not get a little along Dudley is walking and he needs Harry in a headlock for emotional support. Daniel Radcliffe is like five foot four or something. He's supposedly carrying this massive British hooligan. He's massive. Oh man, that was a good scene. So this movie starts with Harry having a really, really bad day. Not only is he bullied by Dudley, but then he has to defend Dudley from Dementors. then he's expelled from Hogwarts and then while he's having a traumatic flashback about the night

Cedric died the door opens and who shows up but the guy who murdered Cedric oh you're right that would not be a joy oh Mad-Eye Moody you're here that's the guy who traumatized you moments ago Moody didn't murder Cedric I know I know but like they did Marty Cratch Jr. to be fair Harry Potter has clearly not connected any of the things no it's true I did with Moody Mood-eye. Mood-eye. Maddie. Any of the evil things that Mad-eye did with Mad-eye the person. He thinks that Mad-eye Moody is his best friend. And Mad-eye Moody is like, who are you? We never met. Then he goes to the Order of Phoenix headquarters while Tonks is like winking and flirting with him. Yeah, what's she doing, dude? I don't know. And then he sees like the non-romantic love of his life, Sirius Black. The only person in his life who gives him any hope. And immediately, Molly Weasley steps in the way and closes the door. He's like, no.

He's like, you don't get to talk to him. I think that's just a total Weasley move, you know? It is. They're so Weasley. It's such a Weasley little family. He sees Sirius from a distance, and he wants to give him a hug. And Molly gets in the way, closes the door, and is like, go upstairs, Harry. Because they're having a very important Order of the Phoenix meeting that Harry can't listen to. And they can't take the time to, like, greet or comfort this boy. Yeah, talk to him or tell him what he's doing there. No one was allowed to talk to him after he said that died. They basically just kidnapped him, and they're like, okay, go to your room. Right. And what happens when he goes to his room? Hermione is literally waiting behind the door to hug him. She is, like, spring-loaded. He's like a rocket. As soon as he opens his door, it's like a jack-in-the-box. Just like her hug through the tent, that's her favorite way to hug him.

Because she's only been hanging out with Ron up until that point. I guess and Ron's siblings just sitting silently in that room all by themselves he was probably just putting the curse on her and she's just like man I wish I could hug someone exactly I think Harry saved her from another dose of imperious right here just as I said at the end of the last movie Harry gets just furious at them for not writing him all summer even though he ended the last movie by being like oh sure all right i'll read to you i will he was 100 serious and dumbledore made all his friends swear not to write or talk to him for three months after cedric was murdered in front of him like dumbledore is so evil he's so evil everything dumbledore does in this movie he explains away at the end kind of is like oh trying to protect you from voldemort because no he was trying to protect himself yeah very clearly dumbledore is just manipulating harry putting

him into a like a much worse mental state than he needs to be in avoiding him not giving him any mental help or support after again watching this boy die and then yeah protecting himself like there is no good explanation for any of this yeah and what does harry do he doubles down on dumbledore in this movie he's like all right dumbledore's army then he doesn't give me attention i'm gonna get attention from him somehow well maybe that was actually like he kind of was hoping umbridge would find it out and he was like ah yeah they're gonna arrest Dumbledore later he was like oh I didn't really mean it no because we know Harry's a Dumbledore's man through and through it's around this point I believe that Molly and Sirius are arguing about who is the most close to being Harry's surrogate parent this is a good conversation we may have to somewhat ignore the actual dialogue here and look at the subtext because what happens is that Snape interrupts

Snape gets pissed. It's important that Snape only starts talking and gets angry when Sirius tries to lay claim to Harry. Because they're like, who does Harry have? And Sirius says, he's got me. And then Snape bursts in and says, how touchingly paternal, Black. Maybe Potter will grow up to be a felon just like his godfather. Why would Snape care if Harry, the son of his hated rival, is taken care of by Sirius, his other hated rival bully? This outburst makes no sense if he's not Harry's father. Yeah, he can't say anything, but he's laying claim right here. He's going to interrupt and just put a stop to this because he's like, I know who the real parent is. So Mr. Weasley takes Harry to the Ministry of Magic and he takes him down in a telephone booth that he calls the visitor's entrance. And then he says, I'll just get my muggle money. But shouldn't this work on something other than muggle money?

Like, would that not make it easier for muggles to accidentally get into the ministry? The money is not what makes it go down. The money is just required to activate it. Then you, like, have to enter a code in or something. The money is just a fair. That is true, but Eric still makes a good point. Like, why even make the thing required to activate it something that a muggle might have and a wizard probably wouldn't have? The ministry needs a way to collect muggle money somehow. This is their only muggle money source. Just coins? Maybe they don't even understand paper bills. because they have their coinbase society like we gotta get those coins from those muggles wow they're just melting them down i mean it's pretty insane that they expelled him just for casting a spell in the presence of a muggle right because like we talked about in the earlier episodes the trace is like not a good indication of who cast the spell and what it was for right like but it

is a fun like echo of what happened in the third movie where fudge is like it's cool it's cool man forget about it and this one he's like you are expelled and just showing that everything is politically motivated so harry has a trial the trial's been moved they have to rush to get there harry barely gets there on time arthur can't go in with him and then he's there alone facing the entire wizard council is he alone though no because dumbledore shows up three hours early just to defend him and then dumbledore won't say a word to harry even though harry really wants to talk to him. Nope. You won't even look at him. At this point, well, he's like, oh, I'm distancing myself because I thought maybe Voldemort would try to target me through you. But this is before we even fully established that Harry has that connection with Voldemort. I mean, we did have the one dream he had in the last movie that Dumbledore just completely ignored.

But they haven't confirmed it. And so he's just like, maybe there's a connection. I am going to completely avoid this boy as dumbledore defends harry dumbledore is absolutely trying to imply that the ministry sent these dementors to murder harry like he is totally legitimately trying to oust cornelius it's exactly as he fears now you're right yeah either way he's implying that fudge is not equipped to handle this situation dumbledore manages to win the trial with that uh it's still a close vote, but he gets Harry off. And so Harry's able to go to school again. Right. He goes to King's Cross Station. Sirius Black shows up. Why does he risk getting caught just to talk to Harry at King's Cross? It's to give him an old photo of the original Order of the Phoenix, people whom Harry has no connection to. And he did this just to tell Harry that one member of the Order was horribly murdered by Voldemort a couple weeks later, and two other

members were horribly tortured until they went insane. That's the only thing he does in this scene. He loves scaring Harry. He just shows up to scare Harry. They have the train in the studio tour. It's a real train that they repurposed for the movie. It's so cool. They had like six different cars that you could walk through and they redecorated each car to be from a different Harry Potter movie. One of the most interesting parts of the tour was the fact that every single car despite having a plaque telling you which movie it was from was completely indistinguishable from every other car they were all the same because the cars don't change depending on the movie what are they doing this is the funniest part of the tour they told you here's another car there's like some candy wrappers on the seat okay next car some candy wrappers on the seat oh man i loved it it was great when they arrive at hogwarts why would they have evil death horses

pull all the students into hogwarts like is this just a trick and embarrass the already traumatized students who have witnessed death that seems to be what it is just the meanest prank they can think of for traumatized hogwarts students if you were traumatized before you started going to hogwarts it's pretty bad it's even worse if you're traumatized while going to hogwarts like harry because these horses are scary like skeleton horses and when you see them and point them out everyone else will call you insane because they can't see them the craziest thing about it to me too is that like we know hermione is a huge like history nerd that she's read hogwarts of history several times the thestals were apparently never mentioned in there so they may be a relatively new thing because everyone who's seen them thinks they're crazy so yeah it's a big prank well no But here's the other thing is that Hagrid cares for them.

He's the groundkeeper. He knows they're there. He never mentioned them. He never taught them about them and care of magical creatures. These things are being intentionally hidden. We're going to learn one thing in this movie, and that is that Hagrid is exceptionally good at keeping secrets when he wants to. This is one of the major secrets that Hagrid has always kept for his, what, 30 years as the groundskeeper at Hogwarts and has never let it slip even once. Well, and it's not like they can't make horseless carriages. No, they could easily do that. They could even just make horse carriages. The only advantage of using a Thestral is the fact that they can fly. And these carts don't fly. They're just cold. And we also know that they have a winged horse that can fly that's not scary and only visible by students who have witnessed death. They have hippogriffs. They don't need winged horses.

Yeah. But this is the introduction of Luna Lovegood, who tells Harry when he's scared of these invisible horses, Luna assures him, you're not crazy, or at least no more than I am, as she's reading the Quibbler upside down. And I love that introduction for Luna, and I love Luna as a character, and I really love Ivana Lynch as Luna. I think she does such a perfect job. So the actual story is that when she was very young, she had a really severe eating disorder, and she wrote fan mail to J.K. Rowling about it. And J.K. Rowling wrote her back and encouraged her, and she eventually overcame her eating disorder. And then she went and ended up auditioning and getting the part. And so it was this really beautiful thing for her and J.K. Rowling that they had this kind of pre-existing friendship and then she ended up being in the movie. Also, the radish earrings she wears were actually the actress's creation.

She made them herself. As they arrive in the main hall and Dumbledore gives his speech, I just want to say Imelda Staunton, who played Dolores Umbridge, is a really good actor and perfectly cast for this role. I can't think of anyone else to play Professor Umbridge. When you have a villain that is just so universally hated like that, you know that they were played very, very well. Dumbledore kind of feels like he always has, like, something in his back pocket in the books. Like, he's one up on Umbridge this whole time. I love Gambon's reactions to Umbridge. Just like, what? What? What are you doing? Like, he's a complete opposite of Book Dumbledore. What's going on? I guess you could give a little speech. I don't know. Where's my chair? where do I go? I've never had to sit down before. One tiny detail from the Great Feast. Snape is the only one who starts to applaud for Professor Grubbly Plank returning to Hogwarts. Yeah,

I noticed that. No one else cares about Grubbly Plank. I thought this was just supposed to show how socially inept he is, like that he just didn't read the room and thought he was supposed to applaud. So I got curious about Grubbly Plank because I was like, I know she's not the previous Care of Magical Creatures instructor, because that was Kettleburn. And it turns out that she was from the fourth book, but not in the fourth movie, where Hagrid was removed from his position temporarily after Rita Skeeta wrote an article exposing him as a half giant. And so she had come and was in the school for a while. And then they reinstated Hagrid, but then Hagrid left again. So they brought her back anyway. And I guess, yeah, Snape's the only person who cared. No, in that case, Snape clapping is a deliberate dig on Hagrid. Like he's saying, yeah, you're out, Hagrid. She's back. You know, your replacement is here.

I mean, you may be right. I don't know that there's a lot of evidence for Snape specifically disliking Hagrid. So, yeah, great opening feast. And then after that, we go to the next scene where Harry is having a nightmare. We learn that Ron watches Harry sleep. Yes, he is watching Harry sleep. Like he just completely, unabashedly, unblinkingly just seems to be staring at Harry. Harry wakes up and doesn't question that or find it odd at all. No, he's like, good, you're here. You're watching. Yeah. And it doesn't look like Ron was just like, oh, you're waking up and like stopped to see if he's okay. Like he was sitting there staring at Harry. I think that possibly Harry would have less nightmares if he didn't sleep in such an unbelievably freaking tiny bed. Well, he doesn't have any control over that. They're the same beds they've had since Dumbledore was here. Exactly. So in the studio tour, I got to see the Gryffindor common room, and those beds are so tiny.

They are so small. And that's because they were made for 10-year-olds, and they were never updated. They kept the exact same beds from when they were 10 until when they were 18, 19 years old at the end of the series. Oh, what great Hogwarts planning. It's so good. They filled their common room with 10-year-old beds, and they just didn't get any more. They're like, well, that's your bed, so. I mean, it works. The wizard in charge of planning that was like, they're kids, right? Yeah, we don't need much room. Someone was like, wait, don't kids grow up? I don't think so. We can shrink them. I don't know. Why not grow the beds? We don't have space for bigger beds. Are you crazy? We can't grow the beds. In the later movies, you can see whenever they have a scene like this and the person's laying in the bed, they have to be all like curled up and like scrunched in there because you really can't fit in those beds.

They're tiny. Like they barely would fit. a 10 year old it's so good at one point ron asks hermione to write his paper yes she makes a big show of saying no as he probably told her to do you know to eliminate suspicion but what does she do in the end she agrees to write his paper or at least the introduction not only did she agree to do that which seems out of character for her assuming we're ignoring the books where she did that a lot but after that she like immediately as soon as she's done with that conversation with ron goes and sits next to harry and is so concerned about him and it's like harry like are you doing okay and worried about him so i felt like that was also a pretty good show of like her being under imperious versus her not for the very first defense against the dark arts course professor umbridge takes command and basically says she's going to teach them little kid spells and not have

them practice which seems like a great way to create a generation of useless wizards i do see how that's how it feels. But if you think about it, this is a public education system. They're essentially training students for war in this class. Right. And like that's not something you'd normally do in like K through 12 regular education. Like there's no reason that most students would need a lot of these like curses and jinxes and things that they're teaching unless they're planning to fight. But they shouldn't be planning to fight. So it seems like Defense Against the dark arts like a couple of basic things like protego and stuff sure but like beyond that why do you need to teach it to all the students yeah and they don't spend a lot of time on protego no they need it i get that point of view brita but also it's kind of like if that's the case then defense against the dark arts the course shouldn't even exist yeah i actually agree it

should be kind of like the rotc program where like i guess you can enroll if you want and become like you know you're planning to go into the military but that should really be the only reason why you would take this class some schools actually offer like taekwondo courses or judo courses in those courses it would be like if one year you signed up and the professor's like yeah there's been some changes this year we're just gonna learn about the history of taekwondo so open up your books and you'd be like what excuse me and then yeah like why can't we learn to actually fight and they're like what do you think we're raising an army get out of here you know like You can't see any reason you never need to. Yeah, I will say that, although I still do think that Defense Against the Dark Arts shouldn't be taught to all the students, at least not in the way that it currently is, maybe is like a self-defense course.

But she says, like, you'll never need your wand in this class. And that seems crazy. Like I said, they should at least be teaching them Protego. And you should practice Protego. Professor Umbridge is the fifth Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher who is basically actively trying to, like, kill Harry. Dumbledore sure knows how to pick him. Most of the year, Lupin wasn't actively. Yes, he was. Lupin definitely actively tried to kill Harry. Most of the year, he wasn't actively trying to kill Harry. More so than many of the others, like in a much more visceral, physical way. Only on a couple of nights a year was he actively trying to kill Harry. No, Lupin did it. And you might say Gilderloid didn't. Yes, he did. Gilderloid was going to wipe Harry's memory or kill him. That was his plan. Leave him in the Chamber of Secrets at the very least. They all actively tried to kill Harry at some point.

In fact, Dolores Umbridge is the only one who doesn't. She's antagonistic, but she isn't necessarily murderous. She does not want to kill Harry. She does want to Crucio him at one point, but that's another story. A little torture. I really, really love the scene with the detention, though, with the I must not tell lies. I think that's just such a good punishment. It's so sinister. What's so great about it in the books and the movies is that it doesn't truly pay off until the sixth one when Scrimgeour tells him to tell lies. And he's like, I'm sorry, I must not tell lies. In the movies, it pays off again when he's actually going up against Umbridge and he's like a polyjuice potion. And he's like, that's a lie, Umbridge. And you must not tell lies. Wow. So it pays off three times. Once in this movie, once when he's polyjuiced and... Once in the books. Well, and I thought it was always cool that, like, he's got the scar on his forehead.

He gets another scar that's even more meaningful than his scars. Why does Harry just go along with it? He is so freaking angry and rebellious in every other aspect of his life. But here he's like, I'm going to give her all the power. It's because he's so angry. If he shows that it's getting to him, then if he reacts in any way, he's giving her power. Well, but he's giving her power by torturing himself. No, but the point is to torture him. But if he acts like it doesn't bother him, he just does it. Then, you know, that's like the anime way of doing this. She wants you to scream and cry and be like, I can't do this, Umbridge. And you just double down. You say, all right, all right. You know, 20 lines. OK, then don't scream and cry. Just like sit there swearing at her and telling her what a disgrace and a failure of a teacher she is. Because she wants that reaction. I always thought that it was pretty badass that Harry does it completely silently and

doesn't complain. I agree with Eric. I think it makes sense as an act of defiance. Despite Hermione being like, you've got to tell Dumbledore. He's like, I can't tell Dumbledore. So he doesn't want to tell Dumbledore, but he does talk to Sirius again. And they changed it so that Sirius's face is actually in the fire this movie. The fireplace trick suddenly became a much cheaper effect. I know. It's more true to the book, though. Yeah, it is. Sirius says, the latest intelligence is that Fudge doesn't want you trained in combat. And Ron says, what does he think? We're forming some sort of army? And Sirius says, that's exactly what he thinks. That Dumbledore is assembling his own forces to take on the ministry. And he is. I mean, they start Dumbledore's army directly after this, like in the next scene. I always found that very weird. Unless Harry is doing it as a screw you to Dumbledore. It's like, you know, this is exactly what you need to like.

they're trying to draw attention away from and you're gonna name it dumbledore's army in the coming scene where umbridge becomes the high inquisitor i just love her absolute lack of chemistry with trelawny and snape and everyone warwick davis like i love how she goes and measures him that hasn't even bearing on how good of a teacher he is well it's because she's like racist against all non-humans and he's half-goblin. She digs in the state for not getting the defense against the dark-eyed positions. I love it. It's so good. They all hate her so much. She's really trying to get killed by a lot of powerful people. Why is Flitwick allowed to use magic? Because goblins aren't. He's a half-goblin. Well, he used to be much more half-goblin. He's undergone a lot of He had some surgery, okay? He wanted to appear more human, but not taller. Well, that'd be really tough surgery, I assume. It was mostly just hair gel.

And dye. Everyone's signing up for Dumbledore's Army, and this is exactly what Fudge is afraid of. I love the DA training montage, though. I think it's really, really well done. It's a great way of showing them all, like, learning. But it also, like, kind of shows, like, they're kids, and they're having fun, and, like, they're at Hogwarts and breaking the rules, and it's this really cool thing. And then it gets back to being serious after. My favorite part of that montage was them standing in a circle around a moving dummy blasting dangerous spells directly at each other until it explodes. It's the most dangerous thing ever. Harry is teaching them the only techniques he knows. And he learned this from the Ministry of Magic in Goblet of Fire. This is the technique they used on him when they surrounded him and started blasting each other with spells. Yeah, but he knew it was a bad idea. No, he didn't. He's like, this is how professionals do it. We need to do it like this.

Yeah. There's one very important piece of evidence that Ron cast the Imperius Curse on Hermione. So they're going to have a practice duel. And Ron specifically says loudly to everyone around him, he's like, I'm going to go easy on you, Hermione, you know, downplaying her abilities. And then after she easily beats him with one spell, he again downplays her accomplishment being like, yeah, yeah, I did that on purpose, guys. he's telling the truth when he says i let her do that it's good manners isn't it it was intentional she is under the imperious curse and he's literally saying i let her do that so you think he's bragging to everyone he's like look at my accomplishment i forced her to do this i won this match because i had her defeat me i couldn't have lost either way the instant that harry and cho chang are alone why didn't the room of requirement like turn into a big heart-shaped bed with like a disco ball in the ceiling i do believe that is what the room

requirement would be used for most right yes it probably is it did make mistletoe i mean yeah i don't think they were quite at the point for a big heart they didn't require that yet okay sorry They just wanted a kiss. When Harry is staring at Cho, Ron gives Hermione a look. He says nothing. But then she says, see you in the common room, Harry. And they both leave. I think he just, you know, he's using the Imperious Curse. He forced her to leave just then. Because, you know, he's a good bro. He wants Harry to have alone time with Cho. And also, he doesn't want Harry to be around Hermione. As bad as Harry and Cho are in this, meaning their lack of chemistry. Yeah. oh my gosh oh man oh i do think cho is better in the movie as a just quiet shy person than in the book where she was just an insane person who is just like mad with grief and this she's just really like like she's sad and quiet and just like a normal person you know it's the worst

kiss scene i've ever seen like they're not touching each other they're standing like at least five inches six inches apart yeah it's like it's so insanely bad it doesn't look fun at all and then afterwards harry's bragging to his friends about it and i'm like why yeah hermione asks how it was and he says what well she was crying and ron says that bad at it are we and hermione says i'm sure harry's kissing was more than satisfactory so hermione starts sticking up for harry's kissing abilities which maybe she's been fantasizing about and then it turns to Ron and says he has the emotional range of a teaspoon because he's a freaking psychopath and she knows it. I think around this time is when Snape comes to help Harry with his dream problems. I'm going to penetrate your mind. If this was an actual penetration test, usually what the company would do is you would set forth the rules of engagement first thing where you say,

these are the systems that we will breach and this is the data that we will access. And a lot of the time the company will set up dummy data there for you to access because they don't want you accessing like the actual secret data. So I think maybe Harry and Snape should have set up some rules of engagement for this penetration test first. I don't think that Snape can control what he sees when he casts Legilimens. Like, I think it's kind of controlled by Harry. Exactly. So he should have been like, OK, Harry, here's how this works. When I do this, you're going to feel this and I want you to focus on this so that we will, you know, stay focused on these memories. And that's what I'm going to test. If I can get at this memory, then I win. I think that's the most important thing about this situation is that Snape's method of teaching him is just to yell, concentrate, Larry. Snape is a horrible teacher.

He doesn't give him any, like, technique, any actionable directions whatsoever. Yeah, he's just concentrating, focus, and starts blasting him with legitimacy spells. I think maybe it's because we're getting this from Harry's perspective. Oh, okay. And he's just not paying attention. And from his perspective, it's just like, oh, he's just blasting with spells. I don't know. Concentrate. Look at all my memories. Oh, yeah. Concentrate. Oh, hey, what's going on over there? Oh, he's saying concentrate. He's like, oh, kissing Chosher was fun. I'm going to think about that. Oh, no, Snape saw it. Oh, man. Snape saw me thinking about Chosher. Like, his mind is clearly wandering. If Harry had just been a better pupil to Snape, Sirius would have survived. So you think Snape was the world's greatest teacher and we just didn't get to see it. Of course. I mean, there's some evidence for that. Not in this movie, in the next one.

The next movie proves that if Harry had just paid attention to Snape, he would have been amazing at potions. Potions, yeah. So why is Hermione at the Weasleys' house for Christmas? This isn't even the Weasleys' house, it's the Blacks' house. Why are they all at the Blacks' house for Christmas? So there is another mini theory that Hermione actually wiped her parents' memory of her at the end of fourth year and that she's been basically homeless ever since and that's why she's always at the weasleys and she just does it again in the seventh movie what brita's saying is that moment in the seventh movie happened at the end of fourth year so you're saying that harry should know this but it's just so like absolutely inattentive that he never which is exactly the problem that snape was just having in class yeah seems accurate he's inattentive i 100 that's what happen i gotcha so hermione made herself homeless for no reason well no because she knew that

voldemort was back and that she's very close to harry and so she immediately thought she might be a target that's why she said everything's going to change now isn't it and made them promise to write her every day she had just told them her horrible plan to upend her life and all he got was the end of that sentence she's like yeah i gotta do some crazy stuff i gotta protect my parents like i think i'm gonna have to just erase myself from their memory oh man everything's gonna change now isn't it and then harry's like yeah will you please write me because i have no one else in my life right now and ron's like you know i will write and then harry completely sincerely said sure every day okay this christmas scene is very important for the ron cast the imperious curse on Hermione theory so Hermione's just sitting there fawning over Ron just like staring at him and wistfully smiling like he's not even doing anything he's just opening a present

and then he doesn't even put it on he just like puts it to the side and it's like go away mom she tries to get him to put it on but right here she doesn't right here she's just like oh I love the way you tell your mom to leave so into him and she never ever does this like this is just completely out of character for her anytime we see ron and hermione even in this movie they're usually like exchanging you know witty banter and berating each other uh like she's usually saying something witty about him and he's saying something stupid about her but um and this is the only time i've ever noticed the only time i have ever seen harry arrive at a place and not be immediately just like pulled over by an overjoyed hermione throwing herself at him that's true like she always makes a point to greet harry in the you know the biggest grandest possible way whenever he arrives possible he shows up and she doesn't even look at him she won't make eye contact with

harry for the entirety of this scene and this is where he says look at me yes no it's not not at all harry doesn't notice but i think ron noticed that she was paying so much attention to harry and i think he changed his imperious tactic to tell hermione not to be so loving to harry and instead dote on him a little more well this is the year after they you know had that photograph taken of them where they're hugging over and over again. So is this where he says, and in Dumbledore's office, there was a moment when I wanted to, I feel like I'm angry all the time. Exactly. Harry starts talking to Sirius. They're having a bit of a heart to heart. I just really liked that line. I feel like I'm angry all the time. I don't remember if that was in the book, but that's how I felt when I was reading the book. I was just like, why is Harry angry all the time? And I like how they kind of called it out in the movie.

Yeah. No, I had the exact same reaction. This scene gives so much context for him being angry all the time, right? Whereas in the book, I felt like I didn't have that. It was the first book that came out after the movies had started coming out. So it felt like JK Rowling had just realized, wait, my Harry has no personality and I need to give him one. And so his personality was just angry. But like Daniel Radkoff plays it really well, where like, you know, his anger has a reason. And he also isn't even as like over the top. No, he's not nearly as angry as Book Harry, which is good. It makes it easier to like him. They come back after Christmas and Hagrid is back. And so they run to his cottage and they see him kind of fighting with Umbridge, telling her, I've been away from me house. And he's all cut up and she doesn't like it and tells him not to unpack. And so then they go talk to him and he explains that he was sent away to parley with the Giants by Dumbledore.

And he tells them that he's not sure if it worked or not, but he did his best. gave him the message. He knows that it didn't work. Yeah. In the book, he explains much more seriously. He was run out of there by the Death Eaters who basically took over. Yes, that he had won over one giant leader, but that giant leader got killed. He got murdered. And a new person took over, got murdered. Yep. And the Death Eaters totally took control. Now, but the only witness for any of this, though, is Hagrid, right? So the whole story he concocts could have been a lie. There may not have even been Death Eaters there at all. It may have just been Hagrid there winning them over for the Death Eaters, trying to tell the Giants to go side with Voldemort. So he's hurt and he says, the Giants did this to you? And Hagrid says, not exactly, no. No, it was his brother. It was Crop. But listen, Cornelius Fudge strongly suspects the Azkaban breakout was masterminded by someone

familiar with breaking out of Azkaban. Hagrid was literally just at Azkaban and he may have stopped by the Giants briefly to go pick up his weird brother. But I think he broke the people out of Azkaban and that's how he got hurt. I think that's highly possible. But what do we know about Hagrid in these movies? Is he like a bumbling oaf who randomly spills secrets for no reason at random? Or is he some kind of savvy underhanded spy capable of complex covert military operations? I think it's interesting that this, you know, bumbling loser who can't keep a secret was a member of the Order of the Phoenix since the first wizarding war and continue to be an active member. And Dumbledore decides to send him all alone to not only find the giants, but also turn this entire race to his cause. An incredibly secret mission that if the ministry found out about it would be like ridiculously huge news. It indicates that Hagrid is extremely competent, very strategically capable.

He knows how to negotiate and how to lie, how to tip the scales in his favor. Most importantly, how to keep secrets we also know that haggard survived and like you said brita he successfully engaged the giants until death eaters showed up at which point he single-handedly escaped unharmed with his half-brother who's a toddler then he made it all the way back to hogwarts without once alerting the ministry or even raising any suspicion if he is a seasoned military spy who can handle sensitive information with such tact and discretion how come he blabs and reveals so many confidential things throughout this entire series it's because every time hagrid slips up every single time he reveals some secret information it undeniably helps voldemort to reach his goals every single time he is only klutzy and stupid whenever it helps voldemort i also want to look into uh the book's description of hagrid's negotiation with the giants like you

said brita it's a little different in the books uh how he tells it he actually went there with madame maxine most importantly he was bearing a number of valuable irreplaceable gifts to sway the giants to join dumbledore including like a magical indestructible goblin helmet and then suddenly oh no there's a big coup and the death eaters showed up and all right hagrid got to get out of there right according to hagrid nobody knows where the giants live uh in in the books yeah in the movies he says they're not exactly hard to find yeah in the movies it's like yeah they're everywhere no in the books he's like no one knows where they live even i a half giant from this exact tribe do not know where the tribe is i have to be told by dumbledore where they are he received this sensitive information and what you know the instant he learned where the giants lived and gave them a bunch of valuable irreplaceable artifacts the death eaters showed

up out of nowhere and got all those valuable irreplaceable artifacts how could this have happened oh what a coincidence right how could the death eaters have known where the giants hagrid's own tribe lived if even he didn't know like voldemort's been freaking dead for over a decade he wouldn't know like there's only one explanation and that is as soon as hagrid learned of their location he let the death eaters know he as soon as he got this info and all these gifts he said hey guys be here at this exact place on this exact date for a pile of valuable artifacts and the support of the giants who i've already convinced to join you that's the only way to interpret what happened because there's no reason that the deputies would show up the instant hagrid showed up and this entire expedition was a massive loss for dumbledore and a massive gain for voldemort yeah that's true let's let's unpack the scene where hagrid shows them his brother in the forest

So he is keeping his brother as a feral child in the forest. He's letting his brother hunt for his own food. Either his brother has mental issues or he is a toddler who's not old enough to speak. Regardless, I don't believe he should be catching his own food. And I don't necessarily know how giant parenting works, but I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to keep them chained to a tree in the forest forever. He can't even hunt for food. He would be starving. Yeah, I thought that too when he said that. Then he leaves him in the care of three regular 15 year olds. Yep. Yep. See ya. Dumbledore's army is discovered because Cho is such a little rat snitch. Umbridge was giving them Verita serum, wasn't she? Yes, she was. They reveal that later. She had no choice. And Harry never says sorry to her. I feel so bad for this Cho. I don't necessarily feel bad for Book Cho because she was a little weird.

But this Cho, she's just a nice person. Yeah, no, she's a sad lady. And she was given Verita serum. She wasn't going to give him away. Yeah, and Book Cho, one, didn't give him away. And two, her friend who did also didn't do it because of Veritaserum. So important evidence that Dumbledore is evil and creating an army. He's like, the parchment clearly says Dumbledore's army, not Potter's. I instructed Harry to form this organization and I alone am responsible for its activities. At which point Fudge says to escort Dumbledore to Azkaban. And then he doesn't do the legal thing and go with them. Yes. He says, I thought we might hit this little snag. You seem to be laboring under the delusion that I'm going to, what was the phrase, come quietly. Well, I can tell you this. I have no intention of going to Azkaban. That's how I sounded. And then he murders his phoenix and explodes instead of apparating.

And then Shacklebolt is like, man, Dumbledore's got style. He's got style, dude. Also, Shacklebolt is a member of the Order of the Phoenix. There was no way Dumbledore was getting arrested right there.

Snape is doing lessons with Harry, and they are in the memory where he's a little kid looking in the mirror of Erised. But I love the way they use young Harry glancing up in the mirror, you know, a shot they shot years ago. And he's looking right at Snape. He's like, what? Was that Snape? And Snape says to Harry, you're just like your father. Lazy, arrogant, weak. Like, he's obviously being very self-deprecating here. He's hard on himself, too. he's like I wish I could help you I'm too lazy I thought I could help you I'm so arrogant but I'm too weak and we'll see that he's changed but he certainly could have been described as all of those things and then he tells Harry to control his emotions and discipline his mind which is things that Snape must have done because he's clearly not lazy arrogant and weak anymore and he says life isn't fair your blessed father knew that in fact he frequently saw to it like

Like, he could still be describing himself because he says, bless it. And he frequently saw to it that things weren't fair. Like, he gave Harry all the attention in his first potions class.

Life isn't fair. It's stacked in your favor, Potter. But what about, my father was a great man. Your father was a swine. Well, you know, he's mad at himself. It's kind of his fault that Lily died. Well, no, it's not at all his fault that Lily died. There's any chance that he's talking about the bullies who hung him upside down and took his pants off? Yeah, he's talking about James. He's like, the guy you think is your father is lazy and arrogant and weak and a swine. Yeah. Well, if you want to go with the lazy, arrogant interpretation, then sure.

But yeah, Harry casts Protego and we get a flashback of Harry's father bullying Snape. Is there any redeeming James? Like, he's literally just Dudley. He's doing the Dudley right here. Like, Snape is Harry, and James is Dudley. It's a mirror of the first scene of the movie, right? Which, I mean, I know we've talked about this before, but, like, if they did a prequel series, it'd be so amazing because Snape would be the main character. But most importantly, if they're trying to mirror the first scene of the movie, why would they have the person playing Harry be Snape and not James? Maybe because Snape is Harry's father. I think that's what they're trying to show here. I also liked Sirius's nice one, James, just using Expelliarmus like it's not hard. So after that, Snape is very upset, understandably so, and kicks Harry out. What's your explanation for that? If he is Harry's father and he's now leaving him without any protection from Voldemort invading his mind.

Harry just aced the exam. He invaded Snape's mind. Harry's good enough now. Yeah, but we know that his mind is still not protected. That's different. That shows Harry can do legilimency and occlumency is something different. Occlumency is protecting your mind from attacks. And also Harry can't do legilimency. Harry can only use Protego. Yeah, no, it doesn't really make sense. But Snape can use legilimency and Harry used it on him. But yeah, so we know for a fact that Harry still can't protect his mind because he doesn't. And that's what causes the end of this movie. So why did Snape leave him vulnerable? Well, no, it's because he knows that Harry can see his past now. And if Harry looks too far into his past, he's going to realize that he loved his father. That was the only explanation I could come up with as well. He's going to see the night they had an affair. He realized, he was like, if this happens again, he might see some things that I don't want him to see between me and Lily.

Right, like how I was watching him making out with Cho. He'll see him making out with his mom. That was great. Next scene I have anything to say about is the owls. this scene is basically just like fred and george are absolute legends and they're the coolest yeah they're like screw this we're out of here we're gonna throw the world's biggest party and knock down all of her plaques and chase her out of the room and leave forever yeah and apparently there are no legal repercussions for any of that nope luckily for them umbridge is incapable of taking out her wand and doing anything about it so i was gonna say this i feel like this happens many times in the movies but this is the most noticeable scene where like she could have done anything like she never draws her wand or does anything except scream and run and i was thinking it really seems like a lot of wizards can't do magic on the fly because like she could just

use finita incantatum and get rid of this giant snake monster that could hurt students as well no no no dragon is what a snake monster is usually called yeah snake monster so then they decide we got to go and get serious out of the department of mysteries harry tries to do it alone and his friends insist on going with him and they get caught by umbridge and then yeah this leads into the best scene in the whole movie where harry says he's got padfoot he's got padfoot at the place where it's hidden and umbridge says what are you talking about and snape turns around and says no idea so good i could watch that scene for like 20 minutes Literally almost an hour on repeat. Yes, you should always put that scene on repeat. But what's great about this cool moment is that Harry and Snape, even though they don't necessarily like each other, they are so close. They can speak in code that Umbridge can't even understand.

They never practice this code. The father and the son, they just are on the same wavelength, you know? Yeah. And Hermione is the one to break and she says, we'll show you Dumbledore's secret weapon. I don't know how you guys feel about this, but I feel like Grop does not need to be in this movie. No, I agree. He doesn't. And he's so terrible. Yeah, the CD for it's really bad. He looks worse than the troll in the first movie. Yeah, it looks awful. She ends up getting punished by the centaurs anyway. So, yeah, he has no purpose. I mean, this is the setup for one amazing callback, at least, where Umbridge shouts, Sparta, do something, tell them I mean no harm. And he says, I'm sorry, Professor. I must not tell lies. Yeah. Which is, you know, the first good callback with more to come. So they leave her to her grim fate. They meet up with the rest of Dumbledore's army and they head off to the ministry on?

Thestrals. Yeah. They fly to London on invisible horses. They don't show how terrifying this would be for the people who can't see them. Yeah, it would be pretty horrible. My most important question is, how did they get into the Department of Mysteries? Yeah, I also think that there's no exception. You can just get in. Because all you need is muggle money, which Harry has. You just have to pay your way in. A pretty famous mini theory here that Neville is actually the chosen one and that Harry is not. The canon is that it could have been Neville or it could have been Harry. Voldemort chose Harry. Yeah, Voldemort attacked Harry and chose him basically as his chosen one. It would be pretty hard to disprove that in the book. In the movie, it's a little more up in the air. They don't really get into the nitty gritty of it and clearly define what's going on. One of the main things that points to Neville having been the Chosen One all along is that

they go looking for the prophecy about the Chosen One, and Harry specifically does not find this prophecy. He walks right past it and can't find it anywhere. Who finds it? Well, it's Neville who finds it. He is the one who says, hey, hey, I think it's over here. And the prophecy starts glowing when he gets near it and begins to prophesy. And Lucius, just a few seconds later, specifically tells them prophecies can only be retrieved by those about whom they are made. Neville retrieved this theory. Harry did not because Neville was the only one who was able to find it. But he says, Harry, it's got your name on it. Right. But Harry's the one who picks it up. But I also have to say, definitely it is not true that you can only pick up a prophecy if it's about you, because they just go on prophecy rampage, just destroying so many prophecies. Well, you can shatter prophecies if they're not about you.

They knock them down, they kick them around. Just real quick about the prophecy. I think Trelawney meant to say, neither can die while the other survives. That would make way more sense. Instead of neither can live while the other survives. So this starts a pretty cool fight scene between Dumbledore's army and the Death Eaters, In which Dumbledore's army seems to just be dominating. It doesn't make any sense that everyone is turning into mist and flying around. That's just what they do. When adults fight, they turn into mist and they fly around. Supposedly, this is apparating. Even though we know from this movie that when the twins apparate, it's just an instantaneous thing. It doesn't look like mist. And also, you shouldn't be able to fight while you apparate. That's silly. There are two kinds of apparating. One you do in combat, the other you do not in combat. The one not in combat is instantaneous.

The combat one is really cool and weird and flying around. Wow. They're lucky that the Death Eaters are only operating in this scene and not using their wands. Because it allows Dumbledore's army to be using their spells on the Death Eaters. Yep, exactly. So Lucius Malfoy finally corners Harry and all of his friends has been caught. And Lucius is the one who says, like, did you really think you kids could just fight off the Death Eaters? And he's absolutely right. My next note was on the confusing black door that Sirius dies in. In the books, I was always so confused about this door. And in the movie, I was still confused about this door. Are you less confused now? It's very confusing to me still. Does going through the door kill you or is it the spell that killed him? No. Both. What? I looked up this door because I was also very confused by it. And so it turns out she uses Avada Kedavra.

OK, well, then in the movie, I guess the spell killed him in the books. I don't know that that's true. The Black Veil is what it's called. If a living person approaches it, the spirits of their loved ones who are dead will basically approach it on the other side and try to talk to them. But you can't hear them. You can just hear some faint mumbling, which is what Harry and Luna hear. And actually, in the book, Neville hears it as well. Hermione doesn't, at least in the article I read, because she's an atheist who doesn't believe in an afterlife. Wait, what? I thought this was a Thestral thing where it's just like if you've seen death. Yeah, no, she doesn't believe in an afterlife, so there can't be souls behind there. She's an atheist who believes in magic? If you stare at the doorway for too long, you become transfixed and you start to think that the black veil that covers it is beautiful, even though it's old and ratty.

And eventually you'll walk through it and die. And if you ever pass through that doorway, there's no coming back. You'll just die and you're gone. And it's said that Bellatrix's spell pushed Sirius through the doorway. And that's why he died and why Harry kept thinking he would come back. Why does the ministry have this? Why is it unguarded? At least lock the door. It's in the Department of Mysteries because they're like, what is this thing? It's unlocked. There should be a fence around it at least. Like it's on a pedestal that's inviting you to walk through it. No one's supposed to go there. It's in the Department of Mysteries. Most people, except for Harry and Luna, can't even see that there's anything weird between it. You might just walk through those two pillars. Yeah, I would if I saw it. And this is the part where we get like weird shots of Voldemort showing up and do these weird jump scares and making funny faces, right?

And then he has an epic wizard battle with Dumbledore, who also shows up. When Harry is, like, kind of, I think, on the ground, sort of being controlled by Voldemort, the first good memory that snaps Harry out of this is Hermione hugging him. Yeah. And they only show, like, three or four memories, and about three of them are Emma Watson laughing. And the other boys aren't really laughing, because apparently they didn't have any good footage of that. No. We can put the nail in the coffin for the Dumbledore's evil theory, though, Because right here in this scene, Harry looks at Dumbledore and says to him, you're the weak one. You'll never know, love or friendship. I feel sorry for you. Yes, he's definitely talking to Dumbledore there and not the Voldemort in his head. Oh, no. Maybe I've misunderstood this scene. We've all misunderstood all the movies we've ever watched. And that's the entire reason we have a podcast.

Maybe you've actually had directors on before who have told you that you were wrong. We've also had ones that have told us we're right, so ha. Okay, so the fight is over. Everyone knows Voldemort came back. I just got to unpack Dumbledore's explanation to Harry. He says, I knew it was only a matter of time before Voldemort made the connection between you. I thought by distancing myself from you, as I have done all year, he'd be less tempted and therefore you might get more protected kind of thing. This makes zero sense. If he thought Voldemort might make the connection, he could have just told Harry that. Like, Dumbledore is literally the only person in the world that Voldemort is afraid of. Why would distancing himself from Harry protect Harry? That doesn't make any sense at all. Voldemort's much more interested with Harry than with Dumbledore anyway. So, like, trying to distance himself won't matter.

Harry asks Dumbledore why he didn't tell him about the prophecy. Dumbledore's explanation is to deflect by reminding Harry of his guilt and trauma, saying the same reason you tried to save Sirius. Yeah. Which is, just saying, you literally just got Sirius killed, just reminding you, hey, you're the guilty party here. Don't question me. He's such a dark wizard. He's so evil. Yeah, no. And then he says, I didn't want to cause you any more pain. I care too much about you. Which is clearly causing him more pain. And then the movie ends with a very nice scene again between Harry and Luna Lovegood, which I really like, where he offers to help her look for all of her things that have gone missing. She says everything, all her things have gone missing, and she needs to find them by tonight because they're leaving tomorrow. And he helps her. He finds her shoes. No, she refuses his help because she's like, oh, things we love have a way of coming back

to us in the end, if not always in the way we expect. And then they look up and see her shoes, and she does nothing to get them and says, go go have some pudding and skips away they weren't her shoes it was someone else's shoes and then the movie finally ends with them walking back toward the carriages together and harry assures his friends we got one thing voldemort doesn't have and ron says what's that something worth fighting for and ron just looks at him so unimpressed does not seem like he thinks that didn't reassure me at all all right is hagrid a death eater well yeah yeah uh is dumbledore evil is he a dark wizard raising an army oh yeah yes he raised an army he did specifically do that yes is snape harry's father i mean there's been more evidence in this movie than anyone so far okay this is the big one is ron casting imperious on hermione this movie marks a very strong and seemingly sudden change in their relationship from her like clinging to

harry to suddenly her being like oh we're on when that hadn't happened so far dude she doesn't jump out of her chair and go launch herself at harry when he comes in on christmas that is the most out of character thing she's ever done she's clearly under a curse no way that could happen normally we'll see how many uh more episodes we get out of this yeah all right come back next time for possibly more harry potter if you like this theory if you want to talk to us we're always on twitter so uh tweet us at popcorn isn't real let us know what you think uh let us know if you have any other movies you want us to cover uh we love fan theories we'd love to talk to you about them um thanks so much brita for being on the podcast today really appreciate it i think you bring a lot of knowledge of the harry potter universe thanks for having me music for this episode was provided by Christine. And remember, the popcorn isn't real.