Rumi was working for the demons all along

Hello, everybody, and welcome to The Popcorn Isn't Real. I'm Leif Eric. I'm here with my co-host, Torvald, and we're joined today by a special guest who always shows up in November. Yeah! Our sister Brita! Miss Brita! Hello! I'm so happy to be here. I just want to give you guys my understanding of the backstory and plot to K-pop Demon Hunters before we get too far into it, because I feel like I have sort of missed something. Turning it on the first time, they've got this nice little, you know, wall of exposition where it's like, no, you don't get to watch a movie. You get to learn about the world where demons exist and girls fight them with music. So my understanding from that scene is every generation, there are some girls that are chosen that are basically slayers. Yes. Yes. I feel like parts of the movie were maybe influenced by slayers. But anyway. They were. by Buffy the Vampire Slayer

which you could say influenced Twilight because of Buffy and Angel which then influenced Anna Blue which influenced K-pop demon hunters we might be overestimating Anna Blue's influence here I mean maybe but that being said my understanding is that the world chooses these girls no person chooses them the earth chooses them and they're given powers but their powers are manifested through their singing so when they sing their voices like drive away demons or something i guess i don't know they have to sing to fight demons and yes they build a han moon well this is this is where my understanding falls flat because it talks about how they build a han moon to seal the demons out of the human realm now number one that home moon seems to not work very well because there there's demons in the human realm number two a lot to say about the han moon well they talk about sealing the han moon as if that's something that happens but has that ever happened because i kind of sort

of got the impression that every generation they got to seal the han moon but i also kind of got the impression that they've never sealed the han moon yeah so i got the impression that it had never been done and that they have never successfully why are roomie and her friends so freaking confident they're like yeah let's do this golden we're gonna do it like ladies specifically tells them like your generation is gonna do this i have no idea why she believes all celine does is lie did you did you not watch the movie everything celine says is a lie that's all she does is it the earth that picks the girls or is it celine that picks like are they picked by the previous k-pop demon hunters or are they the the children of the previous k-pop demon hunters Which seems to be the case with Rumi. Rumi is, but the other two are not. Well, and that's my next question. Is Rumi... So I know that Selene raised Rumi, but is not Rumi's mom.

Yes. I think that Rumi's mom was a demon hunter who also was, you know, having relations with a demon. Yeah. According to Netflix's press release, the second movie is going to talk more about her parents. Whoa. I think there's a lot of confusion about a lot of things to do with the home and how the girls are selected that could be fleshed out in later movies. I also think that any theories we make today will be like immediately debunked when there's a second. Yeah. They need to do a prequel about every single one of those those singing groups. Yeah. That was my first thought. I thought you were going to say about every single one of the Saja boys. Oh, they should. Dude, why does Baby drink all the time? He's drinking in every scene in the movie. I guess that's what babies do. I want to talk about how this was obviously a surprise hit, even for Netflix. They had no idea it was going to be popular.

Very clearly not ready for this. As is the case with Netflix surprise hits. They had nothing ready to go. They had no merchandise. And I think the most obvious part is that they just kill the Saja boys. Which clearly, if they knew how popular this was going to be, they would have kept them alive. They didn't. So at the end, I mean, we're going to skip to the end, talk about that. At the end, he gives her his soul and his soul flows into Rumi. So he's still around. Yeah, but there's four more Saja boys that we watch get slashed together. They don't have any lines. And also, that's exactly the problem. They should have more. Like, that's what Eric said. They didn't leave it open to do more with the Saja boys. Because the Sasha boys are popular. Yeah, the Sasha boys are great. People like their look. I kind of like the Sasha boys more than I like the demon hunches. If I'm being honest. Torvalds was taken in by the soda pop phenomenon.

Well, the thing is, they love my sin. And now I have to give them my soul or whatever that last song they sang was about. Other than just Genu. And they absolutely shouldn't have just killed them. And if they were going to kill them, I mean, like, they have a big old fight scene with, like, these little Kappa water demons. Yeah, I know. Why not give a big old fight scene to, like, each one of the Saja boys? Yeah, I agree. It just kind of happened. They just kind of ran out and jumped in and pailed themselves on the girl's weapons. You're just my type. Oh, well. And she kills him in two seconds. Like, they're not powerful. No, they're really not. Anyway. I don't know. I actually am not certain that... Okay, so like you were saying, that the whole moon doesn't get explained. Another thing that doesn't get explained is, like, how they're eating souls. What happens to the people whose souls are eaten?

They just disappear. Yeah, they just disappear. They're just gone. I think they die. Can they come back? Are they dead? No, no. Well, they can come back. It's demons, I think. Okay, maybe. No, no, because he ate their soul. So maybe they are just dead. Yeah, I don't know. And then the same thing with the Huntrix killing all the demons. Like, they don't really clarify what happens to the demons. No, they definitely kill the demons. They're killing those demons. Because they could just be sending them back to the demon realm. No, they kill them. That's what they say. they don't know they're never going to the demon realm it's true i guess you're right well okay i mean if we're asking questions first of all um i like what you're saying about how they they clearly weren't ready for this but they did embrace it and now they're like sending the voice actors on tour and everything and dude leif you got to meet them you you got to you got like

you got signatures and stuff right why didn't you tell me did they do your outgoing message on your phone no no no so okay so first of all there there is some confusion so there are the singing voice the singing voices yes right and the speaking those ones have gone like and done live shows now uh then there are the voice actors who do them when they're speaking yeah the voice actor for mira's speaking voice who had done basically nothing before this as brita confirmed for us yeah um came she did comic-con and she was like huge like there was no one there this was on like thursday of comic-con like like no one was there i i think we're gonna have legal problems because it is not comic-con and you can't call it comic-con i can call a comic convention there you go they came to a comic convention and um anyway so but she had like crowds going out the door like she's a rock star like no one wanted next to her was sean austin like

samwise gamge yeah no one cared about no one cared about samwise everyone was just lined up for this voice actor who's done nothing before and she had like bodyguards she had to have people holding up signs saying do not take pictures to protect her from the demons right i mean people were still skipping the line going up and just like snapping a picture of her and leaving was there one guy who kept ripping his shirts off and saying i love hunt tricks she's not even the singing voice the songs being what you know ostensibly made this this movie popular and she's still you know that famous and and popular now yeah no it was such a i definitely a surprise hit netflix wasn't ready for it i saw like this week they signed a deal with hasbro and mattel to make toys and it was like clearly that should have been done before it released but they didn't think anyone was gonna watch it that's the other thing i was gonna say i wanted to buy

some k-pop demon hunter toys for my kids because they love them i couldn't find any i had to like go to the chinese you know ripoff websites and try and find something they're the only ones making k-pop demon hunter toys yeah and for the longest time the only official merch was netflix's official website was trying to sell me t-shirts of the shirts in the show so not like even shirts with their faces on it but just shirts of like this is the shirt bobby wore that says hunt tricks and this is that like teddy bear shirt mirror wears which is cool but it was just weird for that to be like the only merch well the first thing that i wanted to do after watching it i wanted to go out and buy a saja boy's hat and a saja boy's shirt and couch yes yeah but then i realized i didn't Couch, couch, couch. I actually wanted, you know, to talk to some girls. Couch can wait. All of them, like Rumi, Zoe, Mira, even Jinu.

I have to say I'm grateful that they chose easy-to-pronounce Korean names. Yeah, me too. Because most Korean names, I have no idea how to pronounce it. The main singing voice for Rumi, Christine has been researching her a ton and just regaling me all about her. So her name is EJ. I think that's how you say it. I think so, too. Yeah, so she helped write the songs and she was a songwriter and she sang all the demos and she didn't know if she was going to be the final singing voice, but they had her be the final singing voice. And it's been really great for her because, according to Christine, she went to the school that you go to if you want to be a K-pop star. Demon Hunter? Yeah, it's called SM Entertainment and it's basically the biggest K-pop farm. They make the most K-pop groups and they're really wealthy. But she wasn't, because you're basically competing to get chosen and she wasn't chosen.

Yeah, she didn't debut for 10 years. Well, they're lost. Turns out she's better than all of them. Yeah. She's international. Yeah. And now she's bigger than all of them because K-pop was big. People like it before this movie. This movie has made it explode and she's now the most famous K-pop star. There is like more famous than twice who sings it at the end. No one cares about twice. Who the crap is twice? Well, I mean, you know, from a Western perspective. Yeah. But no, this is what I wanted to say is that the K-pop Demon Hunters, Huntrix, they with Golden, they topped Billboard charts or whatever and became the number one chart topping K-pop girl group, which is already impressive. What's even more impressive than that is the fact that Idol by Saja Boys topped the charts or at least the Spotify charts for the K-pop male bands, meaning that they are more successful than BTS and they only have one song.

Well, two. They got Soda Pop, come on. I said two. You can't count out Soda Pop, that's catchy as heck. Yeah, but Soda Pop didn't top the charts. What? We've got to fix this. I know that one better than your Idol. Yeah, Idol kind of wasn't as good as Soda Pop. I love Idol. I think Idol is an amazing song. I'm still kind of hung up on the whole Hanmoon thing. If it has never happened before, why do they even think that they can turn it gold? Why do they even think that that's a thing that happens? I feel like in the scene where they first showed the three women make the Hanmoon, it kind of glittered gold for a second. Oh, and they're like, we need to do that more and it will be permanent if you do it. Well, that's what their bosses told them, Selene or whatever her name is. Okay, so actually the Hon Moon is very important to the theory that I wanted to bring to the table today, which is the theory.

Yeah, what is your theory? I don't know what your theory is. What are we talking about? Yeah, so it's very important. Seriously, stop beating around the bush and tell us what we're here for. So my theory is that at the end of the movie, it ends very triumphant. Rumi takes down Guima, they create a new Hon Moon that is apparently better than ever, and they win. Apparently, yeah. My theory is that when Rumi falls under Guima's control, she does not recover from that. So every action she takes after that is under Guima's control. He is having her do this. He has her create the new Hon Moon, and it does not work. It doesn't do anything to keep demons out. It just gives the hunters a false sense of security. Okay, I like it. I like the theory, and I like where you're going with it. Well, yeah, because it's a demon. It's pattern colored. Whoa, it is. It's true. Yeah. Rumi never fell under Guimon's control.

Her friends did. No, we're going to prove to you that she did. She never heard his voice. She never did. Everyone else heard his voice. No, I have proof. Not her. Oh, okay. You have proof. Back to your point about, like, what is up with the whole moon. Something kind of interesting is we see three colors of whole moon over the course of this movie. The main one is the blue whole moon, which we know works kind of because Guimon's stuck in the demon realm. Do we know that it works? It doesn't seem to work. Well, Jean-Dieu sings a song that implies that Guima is just starving and no one gets souls anymore. So it seems to be working. Does he dare to taunt Guima with the voice that Guima gave him? Yeah, it seems to work. When the home moon completely stops working, Guima can just show up in their world. Yeah, there is kind of a fourth color of home moon. Sometimes it's pink and that's when it's breaking and demons can get burned.

And so then we are told that they can make a golden whole moon, and we see it start to turn gold, and that if they complete the golden whole moon, no demons will be able to get through. It won't turn pink. There will be no tears. But they never turn golden. And then we see at the end a rainbow whole moon, which they don't tell us anything about. They never say what it does. They never say if it's effective, if it's keeping all the demons out. There aren't demons right then, but we don't know if it will continue to be that way, and that's where the movie ends off. It's very crucial to my theory that the rainbow home moon is actually created by Guima and is to help demons. Yeah, I mean, oddly enough, you're drawing a lot of connections between this movie and The Matrix 3, which also ends with tearing down the whole Matrix and replacing it with a new rainbow version of The Matrix. It's true. It does. And the question at the end of that movie is, is this Matrix effective? Is it actually going to work? Is it going to keep the humans alive? Is it sustaining the robots?

And then it turns out in Matrix Resurrections that kind of just sucks and it doesn't work. Yeah, so that's my theories. That's the next K-pop movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to see this one when we didn't do anything. The demons go out. They try to attack the K-pop demon hunters. They fail. And then that stewardess demon goes back to Gwimon. And it's like clear that he's going to kill her. And my kids were like, what's she doing? Why is she going towards that gigantic flame that wants to kill her? Why doesn't she leave? And I'm like, I don't know. Well, I guess she has to. She can't help it. Right. And that's what I was going to say is it seems like he controls all demons. Yes, he does. Except for Rumi. Though he doesn't always seem to control them very well. No. It seems like when they're talking to Rumi, he can't control them. It seems like Rumi is like the anti-Guimon, I guess. She's another Guimon.

Maybe. That's another. You could try that instead. But I'm going to make the argument that when you can hear Guima's voice, he controls you. You may have some ability to do other things, but you can't disobey Guima. You have to do what he says. Okay. All right. Well, this would be a good time to introduce Soren's theory that he says was told to him by his cousin Aaliyah and that everyone believes this in the younger generation. Soren really wanted to record with us. Oh. He really wanted. I told him that if he has something to say, he can record it separately. Yeah, I'll just play it. What's your theory, Sorin? Hello, my name is Sorin, and I have a theory about K-pop demon hunters. I think that Gwima might be Rumi's dad. And that would make sense if she's the new Gwima. You know, that's why they're not controlled when they're dying. That's actually really interesting. Yeah, I think you could definitely make a theory for that.

Although I will say, having a child with that giant fire monster sounds really painful.

I had the impression, but thinking about it, this is unfounded, but I had the impression that Gwima was eternal. That Gwima has been around since the dawn of demons and that it was Gwima himself who turned Genu into a demon. Since Genu did live in the human world like 800 years ago or whatever. 400. I don't think that evil demon could be Rumi's dad is what I'm saying. Why not? Because I think... Well, no, you're right, because he could have still... Well, okay. My thought process would have been that maybe at one point he was a nicer demon, and that's why her mom got down with him, and then he had to turn evil before that. But this guy was clearly always evil. Unless her mom liked the bad boys, and that's true. You're right. Maybe she just got down with the demon. She's like, hey. This is cool. Well, and they also clearly wanted human demon romance there were at least three cut scenes where Rumi and Jinu kissed three times

in the final movie they don't kiss at all not even once yeah I was uh I was reading uh just kind of some behind the scenes little trivia facts last night and I only heard about one cut scene where they almost kissed so I don't know what you're hearing about these three scenes where they did kiss I don't know Christine was playing a video where this person was telling about deleted scenes and maybe maybe they were just almost kissing in those scenes but she said there were three deleted kiss scenes they talk about the idea of driving and sealing all the demons out of the human world and they say if we turn it gold that's going to get rid of all the demons even guima everybody they can't come into the human world anymore does that mean that all the demons that are currently in the human world would be eradicated or pushed out we don't know ruby seems to think that Rumi really should have been asking that question because Rumi is a demon yeah and I

assume that's because that's what Selene always told her was like well once you seal the home moon your patterns will be erased and you'll be fine and so she seems to assume the same will be true of Jinu and she has no reason to believe that well I don't even think that's true for her I think she would be erased yeah I think that the home moon works with Yu Yu Hakusho logic like it's a net and they're trying to make the net smaller so it keeps out the little demons right now it currently only keeps out the biggest demon which is Queen I agree with that he's an S tier demon Yu Yu Hakusho logic is something everyone can get behind everyone in our audience everyone who saw K-pop demon hunters will understand that implicitly I mean if that's true then why did Taguro turn down the offer to not go to the deepest, darkest depths of hell. I really thought you were going to say, why did Toguro turn down the offer to become a Saja boy?

Oh, dude. He would have been even more powerful than Genu. Oh, my gosh. Mira and Zoe would have loved his abs. This is 100% of my fault. He's got the best abs. His abs are insane. Oh, my goodness. Dude, Toguro is like the original Saja boy. He has like a 20-pack. Yeah, like there are muscles there that shouldn't be anything. He's got muscles on his muscles. Yeah, as he's got, like, neck pauldron muscles that come off of his neck. I mean, and they erupt in chimneys and make steam sometimes. He's so cool. Oh, he's such a cool Saja boy. All right, yeah. I think that proves it. Well, I think that the reason Tagoro did not go to the demon world is because he's actually a wimp. Like, he didn't want the challenge. He wants to pick on someone way smaller and weaker than him. Well, no, I mean, if we're going to get into it, I want to do a whole episode about that. Well, we should. I can even join you again.

I'm ready. I just finished the Dark Tournament, so I'm good to go on that one. I'm not ready. If you want to. I've got three theories, and I'm ready to go on all three of them. Wait, is one of them, are you going to explain what causes that? Yeah, I need to know. I'm pretty sure it's just Togoro. I always assume his motorcycle. Yeah, when we were young, I literally thought it was because Toguro was crashing his motorcycle into the side of that building repeatedly. He was just punching it. That's what I thought. What? Wait, is this a common misconception? I thought it was his motorcycle. I thought it was an accident. His motorcycle went damaged. He was going too fast. It's just normal. And he just like crashed into it as he went. No, he was just punching buildings to intimidate Yusuke as he does 10 minutes later when he punches down a building. I mean clearly it's a good question No it's not

It's a stupid question Ask my stupid people I stand with Keiko Oh goodness I mean you know what As valid as this is I kind of think he's not a Saja boy And therefore we probably shouldn't Yeah none of this discussion matters And also Even people who have watched you Hakusho Don't know what we're talking about Unless they watch the dub Yeah that's true Let's move past the creation of the home moon, finally, to the first song, which starts with the girls car bloating for the fans. Okay, so that scene, I don't know. My impression of this movie, the first time I watched this was that they act exactly like the girls from Turning Red. Yeah. The Disney Pixar movie. Kind of. The movies aren't very similar at all, but when they're being silly, they're just like them. Just very extroverted, I guess. Very extroverted. So one of the creators talked about how one of her goals with this movie, I don't remember which one it was, sorry.

But one of the creators talked about how one of her goals with this movie was to show, you know, women being silly and just being women and doing crazy things and not being all perfectly put together and poised. And I feel like that was a very similar goal to Turning Red. and so that's why you've got really similar like humor being drawn from these girls at least in this scene just being like weird and gross and over the top right it's just being grotesque yeah i mean and also they wouldn't they wouldn't be as skinny as they are no exactly no so i i love the demon hunters personalities in the rest of the movie but in that scene i wasn't a big fan of i literally don't watch that scene like i'll look away while they're doing it because i think it's so gross i mean yeah it's just a little over the top it's it's a little much with the like korean like the way they have monetized and turned it into a business of making pop stars

you know that they're controlling their diet no they absolutely are this is not not a secret this is industry no for a concert the huntrix is so uh powerful and like what's the word popular that they can decide what they do, and they've decided they want to eat 1,000 calories before going on stage. Well, maybe it's like Sonic the Hedgehog. Or 10,000, I think. He's got to carbo-load, or he doesn't have his powers. Maybe the demon hunters need to as well. They wouldn't be able to generate the Hanmoon if they weren't eating all the time, I guess. I like the song, Dun, Dun, Dun. I think it's the best one other than Golden. It's pretty good. It's my favorite other than Golden. I actually like the scene. I like how they're watering the plants with coffee. Yeah, I think the demons are very funny in that scene. The demons were amazing in that scene. That's a great introduction to them. Well, but no, my question there is the demons used to be humans.

Why don't they know how coffee works? Maybe they didn't all used to be humans. But coffee's been around for millennia. Humans have been drinking coffee for thousands of years. They should know what coffee is and that you don't give it to flowers. Just because Genu used to be a human and became a demon doesn't mean that's what happened to all demons. Why would you assume that? This is the only way that we know that demons exist. The reason I would assume that is because I read things about, like, Asian folklore and demons and yokai in Japan, and sometimes humans turn into yokai, and sometimes yokai are just yokai. They just are. Well, and sometimes they're half-demon, like Rumi. Exactly. So there's all kinds of demons. Well, so my question, though, about the song is, what does fit check for my napalm era mean? It means she's got to make sure she looks good because she's about to drop a bomb.

Whoa. That's a bad bomb to drop. That's my favorite line in the song, but I'm just not sure what it means. Yeah, napalm's no good. Yeah, I know. They probably shouldn't drop napalm specifically on their own audience, which, by the way, it took me like three watch throughs to figure out. I was like, why were they in a plane when they were supposed to be at their concert? like it was starting right then they should have known and i finally figured out they were they were planned to parachute in they were going to jump out of the plane onto their concert they just assumed that like the people flying the plane would tell them oh it's time for you to go and they didn't because they were demons why do you think that they planned that because they were in because it shows i know well yeah they didn't need them though they all right because it shows bobby look at his phone he sees the plane go over the arena and then he says where are they because

he thought they would drop in and they didn't okay see i thought he looked at his phone and then he sees the plane and he knows that that's their flight and he's like why haven't they landed yet not like why aren't they literally barreling through the air towards me with no parachute well yeah if he doesn't know they're demon hunters yeah well he probably thinks that they're because like i don't remember if it's bobby who says it but later someone talks about like oh the special effects making that guy explode like for some reason Bobby thinks they do all their own special effects and don't involve him they just do it without him yeah yep well Bobby's just their manager he wouldn't necessarily be the one in charge of of planning out all the the show stuff well but the girls wouldn't plan out the special effects they would have crews do that but well yeah but they would rehearse it though they'd be involved more than

bobby is maybe one time when we were doing a show for afi we rehearsed a song with miley cyrus but i never saw her like manager just hanging around like just like talking to us about he's not a good manager the different good managers do stuff we should do in the show miley herself came out on stage and was telling us exactly what she wanted and how to adjust the mix and uh she just came out and she was singing and then she would stop singing and say okay turn this level up turn that down and then she would jump right back into the song as though she had never stopped she was really professional and then finally at the end she said alright if we can keep the mix like that I will be happy and she put the mic down and she just walked off stage Miley Cyrus is so cool the singers might be more involved you're saying that she came in like a wrecking ball yeah she never meant to wreck our balls

she's a real ball buster oh man speaking still of special effects the line when i again i don't remember if it's bobby says that finale with the guy in the demon suit exploding into confetti like that was amazing but well no as far as we know finale that was the first song yeah i was like there are only two like maybe yeah there's only two options one is that they started this concert then left got in a plane we're car bloating and then we're supposed to jump back in and that was the finale And then the second option is that it's just a concert with only one song, even though they specifically said the most songs when they were carb loading. Well, yeah, it's true. Well, they usually never sang a whole song before. They only sing half a song and then they leave. Well, no, they sang half of it on the plane before they got there. Yeah, back here it was like, are they miked on the plane? Like, how is the song even getting into the stadium?

It didn't be interesting for the crowd. Well, OK, I may not be the I may not be the imminent authority on this, but I can say that I have been to a single concert in my life. Have either of you been to a concert? I've actually been to two. Whoa. OK, so you may know even better than me. We're not a very concert going people. The imminent authority. Well, all I can say is the one concert that I went to, which happened to be a Kylie Minogue concert. I think that's how you pronounce her name. Who is that? I don't even remember. She sang some songs. I happened to be near a building that was advertising that concert. And I was like, oh, hey, I got nothing to do tonight. I might as well go to a concert. And oh, look, it starts in like 20 minutes. So I was like, all right, I'll see if there's tickets available. And lo and behold, there were. So I bought a ticket and I went in there. I ended up sitting there for like an hour and a half because it turns out concerts don't start when they say they're going to start.

Yeah, they start an hour and a half after. When it started, it wasn't even Kylie. It was some random girl who didn't even sing. And she just ran out onto the stage and then, like, played a DJ stand for, like, 30 minutes. And then she just, like, turned it off and ran away. And then we had another half hour of silence. And then Kylie came out and started singing. So I ended up sitting there for, like, two and a half hours. Just, like, where's the singer? Is this how concerts are? And then did Kylie only sing half of one song and then leave? And then everyone was like, that's an amazing finale. from the sky, and she was already singing when she hit the ground, so I was like, did I miss something? This isn't the whole song. No, no. She sang lots and lots of songs, but yeah, all I can say is maybe they had an opener. Maybe they had someone else that had already been singing before they got there.

I don't know. Didn't seem like it from what we saw. I do have one more question. I have to ask the mirror mirror on my phone, but who's the baddest? Us. Hello. Whoa. um i liked how happy that demon was to get its makeup done by zoe in that scene no but it's so sad she kills it yeah she does makeup and she freaking kills it i thought it was her friend back to the demon realm where he gets to show it off to all his that's not what she thinks yeah well but when she raps she goes hard and kills demons stop quoting song lyrics so i one thing that i did not understand when watching the movie and which i would like to have more clarity over is what are their powers and what are the levels of their powers what can they actually do and i try they have i tried weapons yeah i tried to sort of can fly a little i i realized watching this that one of their powers is to fall from like jet heights like like airliner heights and

hit the ground at speed and just live and be fine. And not break anything either. They didn't mess up the stage. They didn't break the stage or anything. So it seems like they have some ability to control their descent I guess. And they can make swords. They can't exactly fly but they can slow their descent. And they make weapons. And that seems to be it. That's all their powers. And they can save the helmet. They seem to have slightly elevated strength and speed. That's true. I'm judging from just looking at them. They don't look like they have any muscle yeah yeah and i would guess that they are have some like better endurance because they're maintaining both a k-pop star lifestyle and a hunter lifestyle like going out all the time yeah but they never get couch that's why we see them get couch for 0.5 seconds in this whole movie that's true well i i would have the first time i watched this i also was under the

impression that they have some sort of like um extra sensory perception that they can sort of sense demons but on subsequent viewings i actually think that everyone can see and sense demons and and magic because like the the saja boys also use magic as part of their act when they literally make physical hearts that they throw at people that actually hit them right like this is like demon effects that i thought only the the demon hunters could see but everyone can they're obviously magicians oh that's true zoe explained that but either way i'm just saying it seems to me like they can't sense anything that normal people can't sense except i guess maybe normal people can't see the honeymoon yes i was gonna say we know for a fact that normal people can't see the whole moon because of the scene with bobby looking out the window and he says it looks great basically they're a little stronger and they can fall far and and they can make weapons make weapons

disappear yep i guess so they literally are just like buffy do you think buffy could jump out of an airliner and survive i do no i don't i don't honestly i haven't watched buffy in a really long time the concert ends and we get transported to the demon world where we see that one demon who went back to report to guima because she had to because guima gave her that order apparently well and my assumption was that she was the only one who survived which is how she made it back but you're telling me every demon who dies goes there i don't know where were the rest of her friends who also died and should have been there reporting with her but yeah i don't know they didn't have to pay for it it's possible demons are dying my my argument for maybe they're not is just like so that scene where genu sends the water demons after the girls he's like all the souls you can eat just go fight them and then they you know a massive water demons attacks and the girls start

just cutting them down and it's like either the demons don't die when that happens or they just have zero sense of self-preservation like they do not care if they die like those are the only two options if the demons don't die then why aren't they just using sheer strength of numbers to eradicate the human world right they could just come back every time they could just keep coming back because they're stuck behind the honeymoon they can't get through that often they're x-tier demons they can fit through they're not s-tier right they can fit through otherwise they couldn't been in the earth yeah but i don't think they can get through all the time i think it like it's just occasionally they can kind of slip it like waxes and wanes yeah like the scene on the train there's like holes opening up they call it a tan yeah it's true i don't know maybe the demons are being killed it just seems weird to me that they would so willingly be like all right millions of us are

gonna go attack those hunters that we know will kill us they're under the control of the big fire dude right yeah but like in the scene in the scene that i was talking about genu's the one who told them to do it and he acted like he had to convince them he was like all the souls you can eat but they in the bath scene they almost lose yeah that's true the girls I mean yeah maybe it wasn't that stupid right it was like actually a good attack yeah but they wouldn't have lost it turns out their power is like more than halved if you remove one of them that's true well I mean I actually kind of like the consistency there where they show several times in the movie that Rumi is by far the most powerful of the demon hunters like apparently she is doing most of the work and the other ones suck without her well except for the train scene where mira gets rid of all the demons on her own no no but didn't you watch that scene the entire train of people died because

rumi didn't fight no that's true they would have won yeah it was rumi's fault that is true but What I'm saying is that like Mira got rid of them all at once. Why didn't she just do that sooner? Well, she couldn't. She had to wait. She had to wait. She had to argue with Rumi first. Wow. I like the scene where Genu is singing about how stupid Grimont is. Yeah, it's a really badass entrance. And unfortunately, Valkyr and I were both like, he doesn't really live up to it. Like, you think he's a lot cooler than he is. Also, I did want to point out. So we talked about how the Saja boys, they don't have any lines. There's a lot of really weird things about the Saja boys. They don't seem to really have personalities besides just like how they look. Are they an extension of Genu? I feel like maybe they're like a part of him. So that was my question too. You can actually see them emerge from the crowd to join him as he's going up to Guima,

but I am not convinced they're real. Yeah, I kind of don't think they exist if Genu doesn't exist. Yeah, that does seem to be the case. And, like, as soon as Genu gives up his soul, they're, like you said, defeated in two seconds. Like, they just get stabbed and they're dead. Yeah, they just run forward and die. Yeah, so it doesn't seem like they do. But if that is the case, that's insane that Genu is, like, controlling everything they say and do. Like, 3D chess. Like, every conversation they're having, he has to be moving all of them and making them say things. What you're saying is the Saja boys isn't real. That is what I'm saying. Well, I guess I got the impression that maybe Jinu is like, and, you know, he is a high level demon. He's like an S2 demon. And those guys are like, you know, they're trash. They're garbage demons. And he's sort of upgraded them with his power. That's kind of how I felt.

Yeah, that makes sense. I'd also say Valkyrie had a theory that maybe Guima was training Jinu to be like the next Guima. If that was the case, that makes a little more sense why he feels like he has leverage to like bargain with Guima. And then also it makes sense that he can control other demons, just like Guima controls him. Yeah, that gives a little more weight to the theory that Guima was Rumi's dad. Because if Guima wants Genu to be the next Guima, well, we know Genu used to be a human. Therefore, maybe Guima used to be a human. Maybe he could have intercourse with humans and have babies, even though he's fired.

Yeah, maybe. I only know Genu, Baby, and Abby. I don't know the other two. Yeah, the two are named Mystery and Romance. Their names aren't memorable at all. Maybe Saja means something in Korean. It means lion. It means lion. Yeah, it means lion. Oh, that's why their symbol is a lion. Yeah. Right, well, and that's why... And it's also the name of like a... They're just lying. They're lying to everyone, telling them that they're humans when they're demons. You're right. In the next scene, when Rumi makes the executive decision to release golden without talking to anybody first of all geez selfish like what's she doing but second of all they wanted couch well why does this disrupt their evening so much i feel like releasing a single should be like a sit back and let the views roll in kind of situation everything should have been in place already they should have had promos they should have had songs you know

lined up with the radios and everything i feel like they shouldn't have had any work to do that night besides clicking the button to release it right as far as i can tell immediately dress up and start recording well no i think it was already recorded and everything the work they had to do was they had to go on shows to promote it to be like we're releasing a new single it's the story of us that night yeah i know i think they did that night and then the other thing they had to do was they were having their first they didn't because rumi chickened out and left they're having their first concert with it i think the next night i actually think that was the next day then that was honestly pretty mean of roomie to just like jump the gun and do that to them no it really was a slave driver let your friends rest it was pretty rude of her also uh i think it's cool that she just has like a launched new song app on her phone i don't know like that's something

her manager made for her that doesn't do anything maybe make her happy it's although apparently it I did, because Bobby comes in being like, your new song.

Thanks for launching it. I gave you that app like days ago. That app, but I never thought you'd use it.

The other thing about Rumi deciding to jump the gun and end their hiatus is that she learns no lesson from this. Like at the end of the movie, they do the same thing. Couch can wait. Yeah, they still don't get couch.

That's the point of the movie is that the secret's not the problem. The lie is the problem, right? Like, she's telling this lie to cover the secret. The secret that being a demon wouldn't have been a problem if she just told them about it, right? Except that it actually is a problem because she's literally killing demons singularly because they are demons. So the secret is the problem and it does matter and it makes her into a huge, dangerous hypocrite. Okay, but what about the fact that the demons explicitly want to eat human souls, which we have already determined means killing them? it seems like they don't it seems like they're commanded to want that you know all right like she's just lucky that she doesn't have that voice in her ear they give the souls to guima they don't eat them themselves exactly they bring them back encouraged the water demons he did say all the souls you can eat well but then at the end of that scene we see one water demon start to feed on a guy

and then we see that same soul that it pulled out of that guy go into guima so yep you're right He didn't eat it. Guima ate it. Anyway, I don't know. I feel like the, and I hate to say this because I love the movie and I love the characters. Maybe it's that in the same way that the Saja boys are an extension of Jinu, most of the demons are just an extension of Guima. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it could be. So she's singing Golden and her voice cracks and she can't sing Golden because the patterns have spread to her neck. Which they did not make obvious. It's not a problem in the rest of the movie. It just resolves itself like a couple of times they say oh take care of your voice but she's always able to sing after this like full half demon her voice is different it's like a lot lower and deeper yeah but she still freaking sings it makes the world like vibrate and stuff Christine really

wanted to sing golden for this singing show she's gonna put on but she just can't hit those high notes it's hard it's a really like technically like really hard to sing song right so it's not that she can't sing it's just that being a demon makes her voice deeper okay that makes sense either way it never matters it doesn't matter for the rest of the movie why they introduce this little twist it's not a problem well it does matter because she has to hide the driving problem in the movie even though they show the pattern being the problem like oh no it's on her neck now i don't actually think that is the problem i think it's similar to what torvald was saying that the real issue is the lies right so she's so close to sealing the golden whole moon that she's just feeling all this pressure to keep the lie more than ever and then it will be hidden forever that's the whole goal right that's what golden is actually about is putting the lies behind us and so that

pressure finally gets to her and she's unable to sing and the reason that she's able to sing for the rest of the movie is because she shares the truth with genu and so once it's no longer a lie that's hidden she can sing but don't you just feel bad for um for zoe and for mira like doing their best trying to do everything right and working so hard while rumi goes off cavorting with demons and living a double life and lying and she doesn't even pay for it she gets to be even cooler at the end she's just like oh i guess i'll just you know be happy anyway because i'm a liar and everything's great for me well they have their own character growth and behind the scenes that apparently we didn't get to see because at the end they're like, why did I cover up the colors inside my head? I should have let the broken edge just see the light instead. It's true, you're right. They do sing that. So apparently they have their own growth.

Yeah, it's true. You're right. Yeah. They go to Dr. Han to try and get these tonics to heal Rumi's voice. Whoa. Isn't he cool? There's a mini theory I've seen a couple of places. The only one I saw for sure was a video by all media on YouTube. And then I saw some people like mention it on Reddit. So I don't know where it started, but there's a mini theory that Dr. Han is actually a demon or even possibly Guima. And that that's why he was like using his crazy big eyes and looking them over and he could see all their issues. And he was going to use that to then take them down and to help the Saja boys know who to target. Then he should have given them poison, not grape juice. Well, that's why he didn't give them any help, though. He just gave them stupid grape juice. The thing we're meant to learn about Dr. Han is that he's just a quack. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, exactly. He's not important. He's not supposed to be important.

He's just a bad doctor. How did he know that Rumi never goes to the bathhouse? That's such a weirdly specific guess. He's like, you sneaky girl, go take a bath. She's all bundled up. You can tell that she doesn't want to show her body off in front of her friends. You're so modest. I think that if his eyes getting big means he's a demon, The demon hunters would have known that. Well, no, we know from the plane scene, they're pretty bad at identifying demons. They're pretty bad at detecting demons. They were on that plane with those demons for a while. And even when they saw the woman pour the coffee on the plant, they still weren't tipped off until Bobby called them. But they did figure it out. Yeah, because Bobby called them. And said, you missed your concert. Well, right after this, when they meet the Saja boys, I like this scene. I liked how the Saja boys, it seems like they're going to be like all super cool and fall in love with the Saja boys.

But then the Saja boys brush them off and bump into them and say, watch yourself. And they're like, oh, but I was so confused why their eyes became popcorn when they see his abs. i assume that's a korean pun that i understand that popcorn looks like yeah sorry corn in general corn on the cob looks like abs yeah and i was like oh and the popcorn is just a byproduct of that and the popcorn isn't real with anything yeah and the popcorn isn't real and it literally wasn't real even though they were eating it yep so yeah after that scene when jinu finds out that Rumi has the patterns he goes back and talks to Guima and Guima says one of the hunters bears my mark but I have no control over her and Jinu says this is good this means she has shame yes that answer means nothing that's a crazy response we can use it against her did you not hear that part that could be what it means but that's not what he says

but anyway so I do think this is an important part to my theory though is that Guima is saying she bears his mark but he has no control over her and it's specifically because she can't hear guima's voice which we know uh that comes in a later scene but yeah she can't hear guima's voice and so she is not under his control yet but if she hears his voice she will be so after that scene we've got the scene that proves that normal people can't see the hon moon where bobby is like i just need to look away from this little phone it's just social media it's not the end of the world and then there's a very cool well done shot of like the whole moon burning essentially the girls all looking horrified almost every bobby line in this scene is amazing like first of all there's the it's not the end of the world and then it is the end of the world and then he's like you're right zoe they're amazing but they suck which is also a good line and then i also like this last line

after the girls all go crazy and say they're going to murder them and he's like well not sure they seem like nice people but i love the energy yep i like that too also when they say we got to take him down on the biggest stage in the world all the girls say the idol awards and he says the state fair which they even have those in korea he's not a very good manager he's not thinking very big state fair yeah every line from bobby in that scene is very good i really like the demon tiger and to a lesser extent the demon bird um i think the demon tiger's quirk of wanting to pick up pot-shaped objects that got knocked over is a pretty cool and very specific quirk and they play it up for a lot of laughs so that was that was fun i thought they did a good job with it and apparently the hat is it's not the tiger even though it's bird size so no well apparently and this is me lacking knowledge of korean lore but apparently the demon that they are that kind of

demon wears like a dark suit and that hat right okay because that's what they always wear when they're in the demon world the the saja boys always have that dark suit and that oh yeah that's the grim rapist people apparently he made that hat for his cat but the the bird looks like one of it's a dark bird it's shaped like them okay so i can explain that for the bird i can explain this a little bit so the tiger and the magpie are actually from a tradition of korean art called minhua art that depicts a foolish tiger and a majestic magpie and the point is that the tiger represents upper class people who think they're so powerful and strong but they're actually very foolish and the majestic magpie is lower class people who have common sense as the common man and they're actually so much more intelligent than the tiger and that's the reason why the hat the reason why the hat was made for the tiger is because the hats for the upper class

but the lower class people take it they want it for themselves they're going to take the power so it's actually a reference that's cool i like that that's a fun yeah that's a fun little uh tidbit she meets with genu uh for the first time and uh just wanted to say that genu is a very weird person what was he planning with that with that dummy yeah that dummy like that would be a good icebreaker right in what way clearly a decoy yeah he just wants to know what she'll do demeanor what mood she's gonna like did he think she was gonna like throw her arms around him or something no i think he thought she was gonna cut his head off i think he was right no he seemed surprised he said whoa i thought that would have been a good no that's actually what he thought was gonna happen so there's a really important line in this meeting with between genu and brumi where uh genu says that's how Gwima controls us. Do you not hear him in your ear? And he's like so surprised by that

because all demons hear Gwima and that is how Gwima controls them. So that line specifies that for sure that if you hear Gwima's voice, he is controlling you. We get like a montage of demon slaying where Rumi is being ineffective and it all culminates in the train failure where an entire train full of people literally die because Rumi sucks um so my main comment about this was number one that uh Gino's plan is like working really really well yeah it is and number two I really like uh the consistency in all of the characters here um all like they they totally fail because of Rumi and it's all because of her lies and it's all because of you know her being in in disingenuous right and that's kind of the point of the movie is that she needs to embrace herself and then she'd be more effective and she'd be able to you know work with her friends I also like the consistency in Gino because basically you think that he's kind of like on her side but he's not

he's hurting her he's being he's being nice to her quote unquote but he's hurting her he's making her less effective he's he's driving a wedge between her and her friends and we find out at the end he really is greedy and self-serving he really does effortlessly lie to get what he wants and he's always done that and he always throws away everyone who cares about him even his family when he was a human he threw them away so he could go to the castle and in the end he's totally just using Rumi to get what he wants. And he betrays her on stage after convincing her to go along with his plan. And I also really love that the only way he actually gets redemption is by actually dying for it. Right. Like because I kind of feel like he was a bit irredeemable, even though he's likable. He's a bit irredeemable because he's like not he's a very effective bad person. Right. Yeah. And I was thinking this even as I watched the movie for the first time, that if the souls

that they're eating really do mean these people are dead then genu is truly irredeemable because like hundreds of people die because of his actions that he's doing just to forget that he betrayed his family which i understand why he wants that but that is not enough good enough reason to murder people exactly he's doing this above and beyond anything that guima has asked for right like he was the one who made this plan he was the one who presented it to guima he's the one who carried out the plan and arranged everything right like guima was literally just gonna keep on doing what guima does until uh until jinu came and you know did everything better so yeah i just i really like i like jinu's character because he's like so underhanded and evil and you don't really see it as you're watching the movie but he actually is a very effective bad person there's the joint signing do you guys have anything to say about that well i think it's pretty cool that they

remember that mira came to that one fashion show in a sleeping bag yeah i think the saja boys must really be big fans oh yeah she did you're right wow hey i didn't think that was a reference to that i thought that was a reference to fans who will like you know line up days ahead of time and then yeah it was a reference to that as well because i think bobby said like the fans have been here all night but my only question here is if you were in that line and if you could get one set of those people to sign your stuff which set would you choose would you choose uh mira and her two boys well would you choose uh zoe and baby was he the one who sat with zoe yeah i can't remember no it wasn't i think baby was on one side but she liked mystery all right yeah that's true she liked mystery or would you choose uh would you choose of course roomie and uh and genu and genu i mean they are i feel like with two of the options you're getting three signatures i know but one

but they're all side characters you know the saja boys are barely even characters right plus we saw the way that mira signed the poster and she just drew a huge like scribbly m over the entire thing so then you can't even see the poster anymore well and abby he was supposed to be signing those like i don't know etchings of his abs his abs but whenever he got one he just held it over his abs and admired it he wasn't doing anything to it i thought he was actively making the etchings was he not oh i thought he was receiving the etchings and just like comparing them like yeah this is my ass making etchings so it makes more sense if he's making them i think you're probably right yeah i mean that's a pretty unique that's very cool i might go for abby i think i would have to go for abby yeah um even if mira scribbles all over it in the end i'd go for that one uh what do you guys think is going on with mystery when he starts growling and barking

at the fans yeah what i don't know what's going on is he a dog that's the mystery yeah what is he what's going on is he an animal yeah who knows it was a mystery that we never would have guessed that he has actually a dog i mean honest answer i took that as sort of you know increasing my interpretation or i guess solidifying my interpretation that these guys aren't they're barely even sentient they're just extremely low-class demons that can't even hold it together without that was how i took it too and that like genu was distracted during his argument with roomie and so they just like he kind of just did his own thing which is yeah barking at some people so it's like how he has a stupid tiger as a pet he used to also have a dog yeah and he turned it into mystery that's what they're all his pets that would make sense he clearly has and likes pets so we're on the the third meeting between rumi and genu where she finally uh she's really trying

to convince him this time he says i don't think he can he says he doesn't think he can help and she says you already have and start singing free so once free is over we get the next big point to my theory which is that immediately after the song genu grips his head and says i i don't hear his voice uh which implies that like he literally always hears guima's voice like we don't we don't hear it all the time as the audience but he hears it all the time or he wouldn't notice that it was gone that quickly right and then the next his very next line like nothing in between that is i'll make sure the saja boys lose tomorrow so the moment he was free from guima's control he was able to say like oh yeah actually i don't want to be evil i i can just do whatever i want uh but don't you think all of that was a lie like well maybe i don't hear his voice i think it's i feel like everything he says is probably a lie but i'm using it to support my theory so i'm gonna go with no

neither of those things were right yeah he they sang the song it strengthened the whole moon to the point that uh it blocked out guima he didn't hear his voice and he was like hey actually i do want to be a good person then he gets sucked down to the demon world immediately hears guima again and is like yeah actually no i totally i'm gonna help the saja boys win well i mean directly after that it's the time for the big showdown um where they're gonna do their best songs and have the the competition and yes it's a takedown well that's my question for you guys which song do you think is better and which song do you think would have won takedown or golden absolutely golden i think it's the best song i can't i mean it's the one that topped the charts yeah i like takedown i think it's a good song but it's true golden is the one that topped the charts like everyone loves Golden. That's because they didn't release

Take Down. They did on Spotify. They did. They've released all of them. You're talking in the real world. Yeah, in the real world. Everyone loves Golden. And I think that the absolute worst part of this movie is the very end when she sings some other random song that's not Golden. But they've already sang Golden twice. They can't sing it three times. I know, but in the background you can hear it going... That's the cool part. Yeah, that song is like, it expands on Golden. It uses some of the melodies of Golden. But it's not as catchy as Golden. We'll get to that song later. It's not as powerful as Golden. Anyway. If you look at the message and meaning of the movie, Golden is a song about achieving greatness by hiding everything, right? Like, it's a song about lies. Whereas the song at the end is a song about accepting who you are and finding the greatness in yourself. Right. Well, the lyrics, but I'm just saying the actual song sucks.

I do agree with that thematically. I also think it's kind of... But it's important that they have this song at the end and not Golden, because Golden is the lie song, right? They had to have a song that's about... Well, yeah, no, I understand that, obviously. I'm just saying, as far as the quality of the two songs goes, the other one ain't topping no charts. yeah uh which i think is funny because again in the real world golden topped the charts and was like on the billboard for weeks or whatever and so i think netflix released a post that was like the home moon is sealed golden's at the top of the charts and they showed like a golden so i was like apparently in our world the rainbow home ending didn't happen golden just succeeded yeah well yeah and that's a good thing according to your theory yeah right your theory is that the the whole moon actually works yeah uh the whole moon works and i assume the golden whole moon

would work but we never get to see it um also back at the start of the golden uh song before it starts they you know go to their room and then bobby bursts in and says girls the saja boys are fighting for the reason that they have to go on now and that's just such a weird lie like like it's weird that that would be happening because like especially from roomie's point of view or mirror zoe it's like but they're all demons and i think genu controls them what would they be fighting about i feel like the other two demon hunters undressing one of the demon hunters on stage might have helped their ratings yeah exactly so when they take her jacket off performance yeah when they take her jacket off they each take one side and pull it off of her arms and in the next scene they both throw a piece of fabric to the side so they must have ripped her jacket in half they each pulled off entirely off half of her jacket jacket yeah they're so strong

um yeah it's a pretty good song i think it's valkyrie pointed out and i think that she's right that it's kind of weird that apparently the interpretation everyone had of that song like the fans watching it was just oh they had a fight on stage and they had a fight a singing fight a choreographed fight yeah if if the world and it somehow made them break up for real if the world of k-pop is anything like the world of you know wrestling like it's not wwe kind of thing then that is something that would happen where they would have like a staged like completely choreographed like betrayal and then that would have ramifications for them through the rest of their career and probably end with a comeback you know so maybe i'm not like the biggest k-pop fan but i don't think that's how k-pop works i don't know anything about k-pop so what i know about k-pop i learned from k-pop demon hunters so i know just slightly more but yeah genu when he confronts her

after the betrayal he's got these like golden rings in his eyes and we also see that rumi is starting to have these golden rings in her eyes particularly her left eye not so much her right eye but a little bit um i took it to mean that those golden rings are the influence of guima and is that does that factor into your theory at all is guima talking to her already is she hearing him um no that wasn't where i think we must start talking to her but i definitely do think that like we are supposed to see her be falling to this demon influence right and becoming more demonic okay well at least the the very least i want to say that i like the consistency that in this world golden is symbolic of lies the song golden is about covering up your lies your eyes become golden when you're lying and becoming a demon and then i feel like the hon moon turning golden would have also been a lie i feel like it wouldn't have helped anything it was it was built on lies

well no yeah but first i wanted to talk about just very briefly uh mira and zoe's reactions to seeing yeah this is this is the worst part of the movie when they find out that rumi is a demon like they were just chasing bobby who was a demon a fake bobby and then they show up and see rumi with patterns and they're just like rumi how could you lie to us they would just think she was a demon that was pretending to be rumi it just happened to them moments ago why would they why would they assume that Rumi had lied to them it doesn't make any sense if we think about this from a narrative perspective let's assume that that's how the scene played out they would have said you're not Rumi you're just a demon where's the real Rumi and then Rumi would have said I am the real Rumi I'm sorry I lied to you or she could have said yeah I am a demon bye well then she would have kept lying and it would have impeded her whole character arc

you know this is the moment where she has to face who she really is for the sake of the narrative But see, if it's for the sake of the narrative, and we're setting aside what the characters would do, then that's what we call contrived, right? I mean, would you call the end of Titanic contrived, just because he couldn't get on that piece of wood that he clearly could get on? I mean, I think a lot of people would. Yeah, many people would call it contrived. Yeah, me too, exactly, I agree.

Dude, what if he just stood up and he was like, it's shallow, it's shallow, I'm fine. But anyway, so that's my problem is that it just doesn't make sense for their characters, knowing what we just saw, that they saw Bobby as a demon. These demons can impersonate their friends. Then they see her with patterns. Well, that's that's how they knew that Bobby was a demon. That's how they know everyone's a demon. Like they wouldn't assume Rumi's been lying to us. And I just think it's bad writing for them to just jump to the next plot point of Rumi's been lying to us and we broke up over something that they've already provided an easy explanation for. Which actually Selene points out. I just think, yeah, that's true. I mean, they saw, they were with her. They went on stage with her. They left the stage. They saw her still on stage. They chased a fake demon. They saw her on stage getting her clothes pulled off and turning into a demon on stage.

At no point did she leave the stage or get replaced by anybody. Yeah, but she was out of their sight long enough that she could have been replaced. When they find her, she is backstage. That's true. Well, right, but she's running off of the stage. The stage is in the background, and she is departing the stage. Is this a Phoenix Wright episode? They aren't watching her. She breaks line of sight. It's video game logic. She breaks line of sight as she's running after Genu. Like, she has a moment with Genu where they're not there. That's true. So, like, I don't know. Well, I think they see her with patterns. They would assume the thing that just happened is happening again. The only, the only retort I have is that they clearly see her real face and it's ugly as sin. And it's ugly as sin. Yeah, you're right. That's true. And it just made the hatred grow out of their veins. Yeah, the hatred has to grow out of their veins.

Which is apparently what happened. But no, that's true. It's what is happening. While I understand thematically their reactions to Rumi having patterns, in universe it feels very weird to me that like they've spent their whole lives fighting demons. Demons are evil. If we see a demon, we kill it. And they think demons want to kill humans, right? And they find out Rumi's a demon and they're not like, oh my gosh, like you're evil. You want to kill people. They're just like, you lied to us? That seems so weird to me. They should attack her, but they don't. Yeah, that's true. They don't. They hold up their weapons. They raise their weapons. Yeah. Yeah. They're going to attack her. They don't actively attack her. But then on the contrary of that, Rumi then goes and confronts Jinu and is like, tell me it's not true say you didn't do it or whatever and he's like i did it and she's like you're a

good person like she's so not betrayed by genu right but he's not a good person and i know but she won't take it she's like no you were a good person you still are you just made a mistake and he's like no i'm bad she says that's not all you are like she's totally blinded by the lies i agree but i just think it's funny to contrast those two reactions that like zoe and mira you would think would have like reason to be upset that she that he she is a demon and instead they're just like liar and then Rumi is like I don't even care that you lied I still believe you're a good person well yeah I mean I guess she's been lying her whole life and feels like she herself is a good person so maybe she's projecting a bit and she's like you're good anyway I guess that's that is basically said in the movie because she says if you if I want to believe someone like you can be saved because otherwise what hope is there for me but yeah well and in that respect i actually

think it is a very deep movie and i narratively and you know with with the themes and the analogies they're trying to make and i really do think they're trying to show that roomie's a horrible person no stop it they are she is no i disagree one thing i'll say about that scene is i feel like it was a huge missed opportunity because i think that it would have been cool if they had had you know a fight sequence between rumi and zoe and mira yeah i think that would have been cool and it could have shown just how apparently powerful rumi is compared to them yeah because apparently she could take both of them on but i will say with the exception of maybe this last scene i think this movie has really awesome pacing that it doesn't waste any time it does a good job of getting you into the action and yeah getting you to know what's going on um although i do want to say immediately after that scene you know zoe and mir walk outside and they hear a reporter on the

big screen saying due to huntrix's public breakup on stage today's international idol awards have been canceled and then the next sentence here are the winners of the international idol awards yes it's like they were canceled like it's canceled so by default these this random group out of all the groups wins everything they win they didn't perform they didn't perform and that's why the awards were cancelled they performed much less than Huntrix Huntrix as we know always only performs half a song that's their thing they just parachute out of the sky no no parachute they don't use parachute Well, yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. They just drop out of the sky. But yeah, so I don't know what's up with that. But yeah, so now we finally get to the confrontation with Selene, where Rumi goes to find her mentor sitting at a tree. That's where she lives. It seems like she just lives there. Yeah, and I don't know where it is.

Like, the rest of the movie seems to take place in Seoul. It's like in the park. This seems like it's not in Seoul. It seems like it's out in the countryside to me. But Rumi got there real fast. So I think this is a cool confrontation scene. I think the emotion of it is done super well and it's just really powerful. And then the one point I wanted to make from it for my theory is that when Rumi offers her sword to Selene, she says, you know, do what you should have done a long time ago before I destroy what I swore to protect. And putting aside the fact that for some reason, just her steps are breaking the honeymoon right now. There's no reason to think she would actively try to destroy the honeymoon at this point unless Gwima is already talking to her or going. She knows he's going to talk to her soon. Well, this this has to do with what I was saying and where I think the consistency of the movie really shines through where the whole movie is about secrets and lies and overcoming those secrets and lies and becoming your true self.

And in the movie, Golden represents secrets and lies. And she has now become her true self. And this is where she has a conversation with her fake mom. And her fake mom is like, we'll just hide it with more secrets and lies. Don't worry. We can cover those up. And then she says, just like the Han Moon. And, you know, basically the implication is that the Han Moon was also built on secrets and lies. And that's where Rumi is like, well, then I hate the Han Moon. Let's get rid of it anyway. I agree. That's essentially what she's doing. She's breaking the old Han Moon by being her true self and not, you know, hiding anything, not, you know, hiding what it really is and stuff. No, I agree with all of that. But I think she said, before I destroy what I swore to protect, before we knew that she was conflating the Han Moon with lies. Torvald, if you want to go with the boring mainstream interpretation of the movie.

I don't like that mainstream interpretation. Believe what the masses believe. You're like walking straight into Guima's control, just like all the hypnotized people. Just like all they do in the next scene. Either way, I just want to emphasize that with that being said, I truly feel like what I've been saying from the beginning of this episode, that the Hon Moon, if they had made it golden, it wouldn't have done anything. That was a lie. That's the lie. Well, no, but that clearly wasn't a lie. Because strengthening the Hon Moon did equal less demon attacks, and breaking the Hon Moon created tears where demons were pouring through and killing all the people on the train. Did it, though? So clearly, the golden Hon Moon would have worked. No, no, no, no. Leif, you're believing what they told you, right? At no point do we see the Hon Moon preventing demon attacks, and at no point do we see the lack of Hon Moon causing more demon attacks.

We see more demon attacks happening because Gwima eats more souls. Like, he's just getting more powerful. So there are less demon attacks when it's turning golden and there are more when they're fighting and the home moon is changing different colors and breaking up and tearing. But at the same time, that coincides with Guima having eaten 100 million souls. So, I mean, I'm just saying maybe the home moon had nothing to do with it. Well, he's only eating a bunch of souls because the home moon is breaking up. No, he's eating souls because the Saja boys are harvesting them for him, right? Well, yeah, but because they're breaking up the Homemoon by breaking up the fans. Well, maybe. But I still feel like the Homemoon has less to do with it than... No, I think that the Golden Homemoon would have worked. I will die on the hill that Golden is the best song in the movie. Well, of course he is. He loves the song Golden.

That's true. It is. It's a great song. Golden is where it's at. It's a song about lies, though. If they had just sung that song all the way through, the home moon would have turned golden and it all would have been fine and her patterns would have gone away that's the that's the cool part of the song is it's all about lies like the if you listen to the lyrics of the song when she's like i got too wild and something's something child and i got too wild now that's how i'm getting paid right like she's saying essentially that she has embraced you know this lie lifestyle and she's not going to be her true self and the same with The girl who, she says, I live two lives. Oh, that's not what she's saying at all. She's saying that her true self is this wild child that she was supposed to hide from her family. But now that's how she's getting paid. She embraced the wild child and she's getting money for being the bad girl of the group.

But what if she's not really the bad girl? What if she just feels like she needs to be? But she clearly loves the wild child. All right. I think this discussion isn't going anywhere. So let's move on to the next song, which is Idle. Oh, wait, the last thing I wanted to say about the scene with Selene is that when Rumi leaves, she disappears in a puff of purple smoke, purpley pink smoke, just like the demons do. And so this is an indication that she is now like fully demon. She uses demon powers. She does demon things. Anyway, so moving on to Idol. I personally love this song. I know you guys aren't as into it, but it is definitely in my top three from this movie, maybe even top two. I really like it. And I wanted to it always gives me the feeling watching it of like, wow, I actually do want to go to a K-pop concert because I just feel like it'd be really cool. The end of this song has Rumi appear and she's initially just completely dead eyed.

She's speaking in this demon voice. One of her eyes is golden. Until until Gwima talks to her and then she perks up, right? We see Gwima speaking to Rumi. And this is what I've been establishing the whole time is that if Gwima is in your head, if he is talking to you, that is when you have to do what he says. And here we have Gwima talking to Rumi. And so she has to do what he says. And the last thing he says is the Honmun is gone. And she says, it is. So we can make a new one. And then the implication is, no, actually, she's fighting Gwima. We as in me and Gwima. But yeah, no, she means we, me and Gwima. And then her like looking more human, human after that. That's just her using her demon powers to disguise herself, just like we've seen the boys, the Saja boys do. And we've seen that even when they were fully disguised, the girls could still see their patterns sometimes. Right. So she's just in a demon disguise now and working for Guima to build a new home moon with him.

I feel like Guima had already won. So why put in this whole new plan of like a fake home moon and also pretending to die? So here's what I would argue is he's doing it to lull the hunters into a false sense of security. Now, I know what you're going to say, which is that Zoe and Mira are already hypnotized. So why bother? But what I'm going to say is that... But Selene isn't. Selene isn't, yes. She can select a new group of hunters. Exactly. So I think that if he had just eaten all those girls right there, that Selene would then go out and find new hunters who could take him down. Whereas this way, he has the hunters under his thumb working for him, essentially, if they're working for Rumi. souls for him and yeah they'll all they'll think like everything's fine no one's eating the souls we don't even need to worry about that anymore as this new home moon doesn't turn purple to show them that demons are coming through because it's always partly purple it's fluctuating colors

well i think that makes a lot of sense anyway so then this starts uh eric's favorite i mean life's favorite song what it sounds like i like the scene where uh rumi faces off with guima and he shoots her with his big old laser and she can't even withstand it even you know powerful Rumi doesn't have the power to withstand Grima so the Saja boy Jinu has to jump in front of it and save her and if Jinu is fully under Grima's control and Rumi is fully under Grima's control what's going on here he just wanted to get rid of Jinu he's like I'm done with Jinu Rumi's the new Jinu yeah I think that could be it uh but my what I was going to say is that uh maybe she's still trying to show some resistance during the part where she's uh holding back guima's beam as he's like trying to i don't know possess her uh and then he still has full control over genu because as we said if you can hear his voice he has full control and genu can hear guima's voice right now

and so he tells genu jump in between and possess her sword the source of her huntrix powers that's him giving her his soul he's actually possessing her sword yes and corrupting her powers so that Now she can no longer fight off Gwima at all because she doesn't have the powers of Hunter anymore. What seemed like a selfless act was actually one last act of betrayal. Exactly. He was brought into the core. Oh my gosh, I love it. You said something about the completion of Genu's redemption arc. But what redemption arc? He never did anything good. There was no journey. And that's why it's the current completion of his corruption arc. You're right. He's got a flat arc. He never does anything good. Even in the end, his last act was a lie to the viewers and to Rumi. I love it. This is great. I can get down with this theory. And so then Guillermo makes a big show of dying to placate the other two hunters.

And then we see all three of them float up into the sky. That are hypnotized so he doesn't need to placate them. No, they're not hypnotized anymore because he's just let them go. I thought they would be hypnotized for the rest of their lives. I thought the only one he needed to trick was Selene. No, I think that because they're not demons, his voice doesn't work on them forever. so okay yeah yeah that's fair um but yeah and then i was gonna say as you said we know that the hunters have gravity defying powers when going down but we never see them go up whereas we see the saja boys float up during idol and so it must be roomie's demon powers that are letting them all float at the end you're right she's using her demon powers yep she's fully a demon this is such good proof and so then yeah we have the post song scene where they're enjoying their hiatus for about 10 seconds in the bathhouse and

then they cancel it they don't need couch and it zooms out and we see the bird and the tiger are still there indicating demons can still come into this world as they please that's true so there you go that's my theory that's a great theory I have to say I feel about your theory very similarly to how I feel about K-pop Demon Hunters, which was, I, you know, I had good expectations going into it, but I didn't think it was going to blow me away. Right. I thought it would be a fun movie and a lot of cool songs and that's it. But when I watched K-pop Demon Hunters, I found out that it was actually a very deep movie with a very intricate story and with very, I think, fully fleshed characters. And I ended up liking it a lot more than I thought it would. And I feel like it deserves the hype that it's giving. Yeah, I agree. And I feel the same about your theory. It's that good. I had solid expectations, but you have proven it beyond any shadow of a doubt.

That is one solid theory. It is deep. It's multi-layered. It matches every single doubt that I had and just blows them away. This is a good theory. I think you're right. Rumi is evil. She is possessed. She's going to take you down now. Oh, no. What's she going to do in the sequel? And hey, if you like the theory, if you want to hear more of our theories and more of Breedledita, then you're just going to have to tune in next time and tell all your friends about it and subscribe and check out our Patreon. Because we've even got behind the scenes tidbits and little excerpts extracts. I believe you always make fun of me when I say excerpts. We've got little excerpts from every episode. Like this, we've been recording for like over two hours. I doubt this is going to be a two hour episode. So if you want to hear more K-pop demon hunter stuff, head on over to our Patreon, subscribe, and you can hear even more discussion about K-pop demon hunters.

We might talk about conservative pastors. We might talk about who knows what, who knows what we might talk about. But you will as soon as you pay our Patreon and go over there. And plus, you know, it keeps us doing what we do. Hope you enjoyed it. And remember, the popcorn isn't real. In a world of shadows and dreams Nothing is quite what it seems We're the fools in a midnight reel The popcorn isn't real

Chasing clues through the silver screen. Wishing for a tale that's unseen. Hold my hand through this hazy spiel. The popcorn isn't real. Behind the curtain, there's nothing to feel. The popcorn isn't real. Caught in a moment that will never heal. The popcorn isn't real.

We craft a fiction within fiction's mind Searching for secrets we'll never find Every clue, just a future we steal The popcorn isn't real We whisper theories, but they all fade A fleeting ghost in a midnight parade Holding on to that surreal appeal The popcorn isn't real Behind the curtain, there's nothing to feel The popcorn isn't real Caught in a moment that will never heal The popcorn isn't real

We'll see you next time.