It was all a prank

Hello and welcome to The Popcorn Isn't Real. I'm Leif Ehrich and I'm here with my brother Torvald. Today we're going to be talking about that iconic winter film. You know it, I know it. A blonde young woman watches the warm life and civilization she once knew fade away from high up on her cold frozen throne, unable to return. Two young men try and ultimately fail to save her from this predicament and she learns that what she truly needed all along was not to rely on others, but instead to find the strength within. Yes, it's everyone's favorite icy masterpiece, Frozen. That 2010 bloody skin peeling off, broken bones sticking out, R-rated horror, chiller, thriller about three friends freezing to death trapped on a ski lift. Everyone knows Frozen. Yeah. I'm so excited because today we have a writer, director, producer, the creator of the Hatchet series, and of course, a writer-director of Frozen, which we're talking about today, and an amazing fellow podcaster. Welcome, Adam Green, to our podcast.

Thank you for having me. So happy you could be here. You know, normally I don't, I don't do interviews unless it's like right before something is about to come out only because I have my own podcast every week. And so it's just hard. But when my manager was like, there's a theory that the two guys didn't die in Frozen. I'm like, I got it. I have to hear this. This is one of my favorite theories. I think we actually came up with it. This might be an original, but I fully believe it. So I'm excited to see if you can confirm or deny it once you've heard all the evidence. We try to find sort of like alternate readings of films. A lot of times they sound really ridiculous when we first say them, but then we find some solid evidence by going through the movie to back it up. I love that. So I have two films that purposely don't answer questions because they're made to make the audience think. Spiral and Digging Up the Marrow.

So normally those are the ones where people are like, so can you just answer this one thing? Normally we don't ever, anyone involved with the movie, we don't answer it because once, as a filmmaker, once we say yes or no, then that kind of becomes the answer. So we don't ever expect the creator to confirm or deny our theory. We just like to get a reaction. Okay. We have a theory about this movie that might turn the whole movie on its head, actually. So the theory is that everyone survived the movie Frozen. Now, of course, if you've seen it, you know that Joe and Dan, you know, the movie would have us believe that they died, but we think that's not what happened. We think they both survived. We think that Joe masterminded a plan where they would fake their own deaths and also punish Parker for something that Joe was mad about. And then we believe that Joe and Dan sort of rode off to the sunset together to go be best friends after this movie was over.

And we can back this up with evidence. Okay. Okay, let's go over the story of Frozen. Basically, it's just about three friends who go skiing. They're having a great time until they get stuck on the ski lift as the resort shuts down for a big winter storm that's on the way. And over the next few days, stuck on this ski lift, they starve, freeze, fall down, break their bones, get eaten, peel off their skin. They have a great time. All kinds of bad stuff. They generally suffer and die. That's the movie. So our first evidence that we have is just that Joe and Dan, the very first thing we know about them, this movie tells us, is that they are schemers. The opening scene of the movie starts with them manipulating Parker into going along with a scheme to bribe the chairlift guy so that they can go up without paying any money. Right. They take time in the movie to establish this. Like you said, the entire opening shot of the movie is showing

that these two have all kinds of hijinks and plans that they're going to carry out together. I'm with you. And I think it's actually important to note, As Parker goes and tries to bribe this ski lift, Dan and Joe immediately start discussing if they can include this guy in their plan. Joe says, no, no, no, he's not going to go for it. And then Dan says, yes, he will. He's either going to do that job for a minimum wage or he's going to do that job for a minimum wage plus a little bit. I mean, I know what I would do. And then Joe smiles about it. It just seems like they're plotting something, right? And so, of course, the more common interpretation of this scene is just that they're kind of discussing, taking bets almost on if this guy is actually going to let them use the ski lift for free, right? Because you have to buy a pass to use the ski lift to go ski, right? You bring your own skis, you bring your own snowboard, you bring all your own equipment, you don't have to rent any of that.

Really, the only thing you're paying for when you go skiing at a resort is the ski lift pass. And they're trying to get out of doing that. It's established that Joe and Dan know the ski lift operator and have some plan with them. Maybe just getting in for free or maybe having some big ski to get rid of Parker forever. And then the other part of this.

I mean, you know, they had a plan, but that plan didn't quite work out. So they salvaged it. You know, we've all had that significant other of our friends who we really can't stand and wish wasn't in the picture. But what you guys are talking about is some next level shit in terms of how elaborate of a plan somebody would go through to not have to hang out with their friend's girlfriend. I mean, we're still at the tip of the iceberg.

so one thing we know about the character of joe is that he seems to kind of hate parker uh he's polite about it uh well not always polite about it not yeah not always but he's not like overtly uh you know uh constantly yelling at her or anything but yeah he doesn't seem to like her he really kind of wishes that it was just him and dan again they've been best buds for a long time okay so they get on the lift and it's here that we can start to see like the real friction between parker and joe specifically but also between parker and dan there's friction between all of them and parker right right it kind of seems like nobody likes parker yeah it's true their first ride on the ski lift like joe clearly has one goal and it is to freak out parker on the ski lift oh yeah he wants her to be scared of that ski lift he keeps jumping up and down they're just gonna bully her a bunch as they as they go up the ski lift so she takes a cigarette and starts

smoking and joe just gives her like the most passive aggressive grilling ever like he launches off on a speech about yeah cigarettes are just gross especially in the cold they stick to you you smell like an old ashtray an old man's used floss and then dan kind of defends her by asking for a drag of the cigarette and blowing it in Joe's face, but not really. I love where you're going with this because when you're directing actors, what I like to do is just start off by having a meeting and just talking all about the character and hearing what the actor's interpretation is from what they read. And this was one of the very few times in my career where what the actor read was not what I realized I had written at all. And because the first thing that Kevin Zegers said to me was, well, clearly Dan is going to break up with Parker at the end of the day. And I was like, wait, what? And when he explained why he felt that way, it made a lot of sense. And I said,

I want you to play the character that way, but don't tell Emma that. And I'm not going to tell her that because she thinks the fact that you are now bringing her along for the thing that you do with your best friend that you're trying to integrate the two worlds because this is it like you're getting really serious about her and so i want her to keep thinking that but you play it that you're kind of doing this to prove to yourself she just doesn't fit in your world like it's she's a great girl, but it's not going to go the distance. And because of that, it was confusing Emma Bell, the actress playing Parker a lot. And so if you ever watch it again, knowing that those were the motivations, you'll see how in her face, she's very confused sometimes by how he's acting or the way he's saying things, because it's not what she expects from him. And even the fact that he jumps and kind of volunteers himself to go first. Kevin Zegers looked at that as an act of

cowardice where he was so scared. He just, he couldn't stay there anymore and he just wanted off. So it's interesting that that's where your theory is starting because that is true. And that isn't something that was ever discussed or put forward in the film itself. That was something just between us. So I'm in. I'm in. I mean, it's just a testament to these actors. I really like the actors in this movie. I think they do a great job. I'm a particular fan of Sean Ashmore. I think he's amazing. The original Animorph, Sean Ashmore. Dan is played by Kevin Zegers and Parker is played by Emma Bell. But I think that they really brought these feelings through without directly speaking them. Again, I'm very happy to hear that. This movie only worked if they played these characters as realistic as possible and did things that real people would do. A lot of times people in the audience kind of become superheroes when they're watching a movie. Oh, I would just do this or that.

And when Frozen was released in theaters, my TV series, Holliston, which I star in, had not yet come out. And so most people had no idea what I looked like or anything. So I could sit there. I think I went to three or four screenings that opening weekend and just sat behind the biggest group of people I could find and just listened. And it's just amazing how people are like, oh, I would just, I would use my ski pole to vault to the next chair or I would, that's easy i would just jump upside down and spin my skis like a helicopter and they're they're serious or they keep yelling just jump and then when he jumps and it doesn't go well they're like you idiot this is so stupid why would he jump so uh and and then in the end after they've like they're like sweating they cried at a certain point and they're just you know exhausted and then they stand up and go that fucking sucked like wait it did all the things that you thought

it was gonna do like but when it's a survival thriller like this and anything reality-based there's a defense mechanism that kicks in with people where they have to keep defiantly saying this couldn't really happen this couldn't really happen because it could really happen and it has happen and they hate that like because that's scary so they they have to shut it down so it's uh it's it's an amazing experience doing something like this and i'm anxious to do it again someday yeah that would be great parker just you know casually says hey do you guys know when we're gonna get back because i got like two weeks worth of chapters to read and then joe says oh come on she broke the first rule and dan turns to her and says parker you broke the first rule he doesn't even try to like defend her or downplay the situation they're both just ganging up on her she says what dan explains you can't talk about real life shit while we're up here the whole

point of being here is to forget about all that shit relax enjoy ourselves deal with that stuff when we get home so i mean i do think that is an important point because like they're saying that we came up here to leave it all behind right to just get away and pretend that our former lives don't exist maybe even fake our deaths and never return to them who knows so back to the character of joe just kind of knowing a little bit about who he is while he does seem nice and friendly we do know that he has a violent side uh toward the beginning of the film and also i think another point throughout the film he says i was about a second away from kicking that guy's ass so we do know that he kind of jumps to extreme measures even if he doesn't actually do them but of course we believe that he is capable of doing something very extreme right I saw that I was the second away from kicking that guy's ass more of a trying to save face because the guy clearly could have

killed him and so yeah no that could be could be but like like Leif said he does resort to this phrase of I was about to kick that guy's ass like a couple times in this movie one when like you said the um the the girl's ex-boyfriend confronts him and then later on when he's kind of uh he opens up to Parker and he tells the story of the jock that kind of stole his girlfriend he says I was just about to kick that guy's ass right so I mean he he jumps to that uh that conclusion pretty quick so they they they go out they ski they come back they come back to the cafeteria Torvald do you want to tell us a little bit about this cafeteria scene? I call it cafeteria scene part one because later on, Joe tells us a little bit about another cafeteria scene. So it's interesting because we cut right into the middle of a conversation between Joe and Lynch. And it sounds like Dan at this point is agreeing with Joe and saying, oh, we should totally do that. Yeah. We'll go to

So Kimo, Killington, just will go up north, get away for a while. I know, Killington, what a sinister place. And then Joe agrees and says, yeah, let's do it. Christmas, you and me. And then Dan says, deal. So they agree on something, something sinister. They're going to get out of here. They're going to get out of here and do something. We don't know how or when or where. It's going to last until Christmas, whatever it is. After that, Joe starts talking about how lame it is skiing with Parker. He says, I'd like to do an actual run before we leave tonight. Parker overhears it. She honestly takes it really well. And it's just like, yeah, okay, these boys want to have some alone time without me and offers to go back to the lodge. Now, to me, this is actually the key of the whole theory right here. I agree. Both of them jump at not letting her go back to the lodge. Both of them, Joe, who clearly hates her, and Dan, who kind of hates her.

It seems like both of them want some alone time. Both of them want some guy time. comes over she detects that she says okay you can have your alone time and both of them immediately just jump on her saying no no no you have to come with us and not only that but then she's like well at least give me the key to the locker so i can check my messages and dan refuses to give it to her he specifically says no you don't need to check your messages it'll just be your mom complaining he won't let her access her phone right what reason could he possibly have for that like when right they did one alone time and she's offering to give them alone time why does he not want her to check her messages and why do they want her to come with them exactly and they're back at the lodge having some food what else do you do other than grab your phone out of your locker and check your messages this was a plot by these two to fake their own deaths and kill

parker they are basically forcing her to come on the ski lift one more time late at night and not letting her access her phone seems a little sinister right um the cell phone is obviously like the worst thing to happen for horror movies ever because even though it annoys every audience member when they point out why the phone is not an option either you know no bars there's no service we lost it whatever it is you have to explain it away because there are people who are like you know just just call as if suddenly all your problems in a horror movie would be solved if you could only call somebody right with this the one thing that we had going for us was that on the actual mountain uh which we shot it in utah at snow basin yeah there was no service when you were on the mountain so most people that we saw skiing and that we met throughout our month month and a half that we were there left their phones in their lockers unless they were going to be

listening to music or something you're just risking losing it or breaking it by bringing it Cause it wasn't going to work anyway, but knowing that a good portion of people who would end up seeing the movie had probably never gone skiing before and wouldn't know any of that. We had to explain the phones. So what I did was just, you know, they're, they're going skiing for the day. That's the point is to get outside and unplug and disconnect. So that's why they don't bring their phones. Of course we could have done the moment of a character holding their phone out and being like, oh, I have no service. I think there was even a draft where one of them did bring their phone and they drop it. And at one point it starts ringing, but they can't get to it. Heartbreaking. It was so much easier to just explain, no, that's the whole point of this. Like just leave the phone in your locker. And it served as a good character development thing.

When Dan talks about the way her mother is a portion that got cut out where he says just the other day, she called asking what we want for Christmas dinner or something like that. Four months away. And she, and her mom needs to know what we want to eat. Like that's something my mother does constantly like, Oh, you're going to be coming home next year for, for whatever. Oh, well, what do you want to eat? I can make this or that. Like mom is six months away. I don't care. I don't know. But, um, so it was like a kind of a cute moment between them, but ultimately with any movie you know you want to get to the peril as quickly as you can like you know set it up appropriately but just you know get to it so it was all about getting that chair to stop and start their nightmare as soon as possible so uh that that whole bit had to go well i mean and speaking of peril i do just want to say that we we like really love this movie like i think in the sub

genre of contained thrillers like where you get stuck in one place there are several of them but i think frozen is like by far the the best of all of them that means a lot it really does because this was a something i thought of all the way back to when i used to go skiing when i was in high school and i eventually stopped because i realized this is ridiculous like strapping your legs to wooden boards and sliding down a mountain. And then you wonder why people get injured. I never was that good at skiing. I was okay by the time I stopped. But in Massachusetts, where the film is supposed to take place, the mountains that I grew up skiing at, one of them was called Wachusett. And they were only open on the weekends because there just wasn't really the business. It was a smaller mountain. And there was one time where I ended up going up myself for one more run. And the lift chairs, they stop all the time. And it's not like

they come on a loudspeaker and explain why it stopped or tell you when it's going to start again. Usually it just means somebody fell getting off up at the top or maybe getting on at the bottom. So they had to stop it just temporarily. But the point is the chair stopped. And then your mind starts to run and you start thinking about all the horrible things. Yeah. And I was probably only stopped for less than five minutes, but it felt like five hours because there was no one on the chairs in front of me. No one behind me. It's like nighttime. I know they're about to close soon. And in my mind, I'm like, they must do a head count when all the kids get back on the bus. Like someone's going to know that I didn't get on the bus, right? Like someone's going to know. And, but the panic that starts to set in, cause you're like, I could be here for five days before like this you know and of course there are safety precautions to make sure that doesn't

happen however if you google it you'll see there have been times where human error plays a part in things in fact the weekend that the movie opened one of the reviews that said once you can get past the ridiculous premise that a ski mountain could let this happen and then it happened in i think it was in Russia. And the way the guy was saved was he was lighting his money on fire and throwing it up in the air and somebody saw it, but he had severe hypothermia and the combination of human error, a storm coming in, and there happens to be wolves when the mountain is closed that are adventurous enough to come out. That would really only happen in a movie, but that's the other thing too it's a movie right yeah people are okay with iron man flying around or king kong fighting godzilla but when it's something like this that plays on real fears and emotions people get really defensive and it's like this could never happen in a million years it wouldn't happen and so when

the movie premiered at sundance which is you know park city that's the skiing town exactly you could tell who in the audience worked at the ski mountains because they were sitting there with their arms crossed before the movie started. And afterwards I would ask them, shoot holes in this all the time. They'd say, this would never happen at our mountain. We're so safe. We have this safety measure, this safety measure. And then I would say, okay, well, what about the mountain across the street? And they're like, oh, fuck that place. That would totally happen there.

It was such a fun experience doing all that. All right. So they convince Parker to go with them for one last run, even though it's pitch black. The weather is getting bad. Everyone else is going back into the lodge. She doesn't even want to ski more. They bump into Shannon again, the girl who Joe met earlier. And Joe kind of sort of flirts with her a little more and eventually gets up the courage to ask her for her number. unfortunately he doesn't have his phone or a pen with him so he just asked her to tell it to him and he keeps repeating it to himself he's he's trying to remember her number he wants to memorize it now i think that this is the one part of their entire scheme that they hadn't planned on joe didn't know that he was going to meet a hot girl that he wanted to hook up with so he didn't have a pen he didn't have a phone so he thinks on his feet and he's like i'm gonna have to remember this

number i'm gonna have to remember it for a few days while we carry out the rest of our plot So he spends the rest of the movie repeating this number to himself while they're sitting there freezing, while they're starving, while his best friend falls out, breaks his leg, gets eaten by wolves. I certainly wouldn't be thinking about the hot girl that I just met. He's not repeating it like in a crazy way, like he's losing his mind and starting crack. It's like he just really wants to remember it, right? Right, because he knows he's not going to die. He's going to survive this. Exactly. this is in my opinion the biggest proof that joe specifically knows he knows they are not gonna die he he's not even considering that they're gonna die because he planned this and then so this is the big event that really starts the main crisis of this movie they are trying to convince the operator to let them back on the lift for one last run the operator says it's not about the money we

got weather coming in we've got to clear the mountain there's nothing i can do but they tell they're going to be real fast so they finally get on right and then the operator gets called in to work next weekend so he says i gotta go talk to my boss about this i can't work next weekend he tells his replacement there's three more on the way down wait for them and it's all set there was three more people on the way down and also the three on the way up that he planned to strand there right like this is his job and he doesn't seem like incompetent he definitely knew that there were three people who hadn't come down and three people who were on the way up who also hadn't come down so i think he's going along with their plan he's he didn't make a mistake here he told the replacement about the three who were skiing down right not the three who were gonna die totally so the guy shuts down the ski lift for the night and then he leaves right and it's

supposed to be like, oh, it was all a big misunderstanding. And that's why they're trapped up here. Of course, we say otherwise. They're sitting there. The lights go out. It starts to dawn on them that, you know, oh, no, we're stuck and we're going to be stuck for at least the weekend, maybe even a whole week until next weekend. So they're stuck on the ski lift. And then, oh, this snowcat drives up driven by a man named Cody. And they're throwing their stuff at the snowcat and it's hitting the window and he just ignores it. And he gets a call and he's like, oh, I'm not supposed to be here, and he leaves. Now, maybe this is just to establish tension, which it does very well. It does. But I believe that this snowcat driver is also in on it, and I have a few pieces of evidence to support this. Oh, he's definitely in on it. Just do it. First of all, there's no way he doesn't see them throwing those things.

He is ignoring them. No. Their stuff hits his roof.

He could not have noticed. So, and also, here's the thing. We know for a fact, based on his conversation on the radio, he's actually not where he's supposed to be. He literally went out of his way to go somewhere he's not supposed to be because he's part of this scheme. Now, in order for this- And not just somewhere he's not supposed to be, but literally directly under the ski lift with three people stuck on it. Right. What are the odds, right? He was there for a reason. But, you know, it does establish a lot of tension. It's great. But I believe that he had a moment, maybe a moment we didn't quite see, where he leaves some stuff hidden in the snow. Some stuff that will be important later on. Perhaps fake blood, ripped clothes that will help them to fake their deaths. Now, oh, this is totally ridiculous, right? Oh, it's so, yeah, okay, okay. But wait a minute. Who plays the snowcat driver?

Kane Hodder. You don't cast Kane Hodder as no one. You cast him as a bad guy, right? And so I think that is a clue that we were given. that this guy is part of the scheme itself right this is victor freaking crowley shout out to kane hodder it is his birthday today at the time of recording it is 73 years old crazy oh man no i'm just kidding he's not that old i was gonna say i had no idea what it looks pretty good for an 88 year old man right yeah um okay it's okay wait wow there's a lot to unpack here okay first of all you know at this point I've heard so I've never heard this one that you guys are saying but when people are like these characters are so stupid they should have started throwing their stuff immediately but remember they think he's there for them they're celebrating when they see him and they're saying yeah and they're waving and they're yelling and they're cheering and in reality

he is there for them because he's working with he's actually going to pick up one of the other operators at the top and then is told no he's already at the bottom so he didn't even need to go so he's frustrated and he turns around to leave and only once he starts backing up do they realize wait a minute he's leaving he doesn't see us and that's when they start throwing their stuff unfortunately he's already looking the other way he does stop at one point though when he hears something hit the snowcat and he looks and then keeps backing up now when you're inside one of those it is so loud that's true like uh but now the way i shot it it was very simple he just pulls up he stops they're celebrating thinking he's there to help them then he gets that call and he just turns around and drives away my editor ed marks created that moment using footage from like before we started rolling or not rolling but before we were i had said action because you know

you roll sound you roll camera and then you say action but there are those few seconds and he found a moment where kane had checked behind him and then looked forward again and then there was a moment where it was a shot from inside the snowcat looking past him as he's turned around and one of the skis looked like it could have potentially hit the front of the snowcat even though it was nowhere near it and so when I came in to editing the next day Ed was like here watch this and he created that moment of him starting to back up one of them throwing their ski the ski bouncing off the front and him stopping to look forward again so you almost think there's hope for a second but that ed my editor he's the one who did that and and i just loved it i was like oh that's like one more fuck you to these guys like they came so close to to getting them regardless of how you interpret the scene i will say it is a very good scene and it does exactly what you say

like it creates hope and it creates tension and then it takes it away which is what makes this movie so brutal and so fun you know the theme of the movie is you have to find a way to keep going even when all hope is lost and like real life you have these moments of hope and then sometimes they're dashed again but you know you keep moving forward and parker's arc above all she is very much helpless but she gets stronger and stronger and there's a moment where she just can't hold it anymore and pees in her pants and it's a very like just sad and humiliating thing for a human being to go through but you her emma's performance there the way you see the demeanor on her face change after that and the anger and like that fight to keep going after that just dehumanizing moment she comes so far yeah from when you meet her to the end where she's just somehow pulling herself down that mountain onto the road i love characters like that in movies when you see the

average joe so to speak find that in them and you'd like to hope that all of us have that in us somewhere you know yeah and i do love the the themes of this movie like how it's a contained thriller but like in a way it's kind of like a coming of age like she's she's forced to wear the kitty helmet at the beginning then like we all have to do she has to claw and drag herself into adulthood and take care of herself despite how afraid she may be. And I think it's really good at that. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I just want to mention that this also supports our theory, what we're talking about right now, because one of the main things that the two boys and especially Joe wanted to accomplish is he wanted to humiliate her, which you can see by him forcing her to wear that helmet and then making fun of her while she does it. And she keeps asking, can I take off this helmet? And he's like, no, no, keep it on. And then makes

fun of her some more right you know that's it's all part of his plan that was intended to show that they're actually nice guys and they're being responsible okay i guess we'll go with you it's at this point where they've lost all hope or at least drained all hope from parker that dan decides that it's a good idea to try and jump down he talks to both of them before he jumps down like, you know, kind of says his goodbyes or whatever, just in case. But the last one he talks to is not his girlfriend. It's not Parker. It's Joe. He talks to Parker and then he looks at Joe and he looks Joe in the eyes as he jumps off. I think he's showing which of the two people in the ski lift he cares more about. He cares about his bro. He cares about his bud. He wants to ditch his girlfriend. And then Dan says, I know I told you I'd done this before. I lied. and then he jumps and his legs break yeah so how do you think he managed to fall so far without

actually breaking his legs oh this is a really long oh yeah yeah yeah well yeah right right he would break his legs no he wouldn't let's fast forward to the end of the movie when parker does the same thing that's the very first thing they try to escape and then at the end of the movie it's the thing that works to escape like they were trying to put that in their head right at the very beginning and parker said you can't do this to escape because they know that's the one way you can escape they probably tested it out they've been to this resort before i think the movie kind of has the rationalization like oh when parker jumps the ski lift is breaking it's dangling by a thread and she's also hanging down by her arms so she's like maybe a couple feet lower you see how he broke his legs if those were actually broken like that it doesn't matter if you're a couple feet lower right compound fracture like well but like well like let's just let's just

think about this for a second right what did dan and joe want they want her to think she can't jump out well how do they show that yeah exactly they did this to freak her out so that for even from way high above she can look down and say i'm not gonna do that joe and dan specifically both of them talk about how the cable is razor sharp and so difficult to climb across how do they know that Exactly. How, even if it was, I don't know much about like steel rope, but like, I would not assume that it's razor sharp. The fact that they both say it and then Joe does it. He tries to climb across just enough to get his hands all ripped up and bloody and then shows them to Parker. I think that they're putting the idea in her mind that you cannot get across this cable. You are stuck here. What they showed us at the mountain was even with a chain, trying to slide on those cables, it would, it would cut through it. And Mythbusters actually

did an episode where they tried to do it with clothing and the clothing came, uh, started to rip. So our stunt guy, Chester, who did that stunt of climbing kind of halfway out and then back, like what Lynch does, um, we had to make special gloves that had metal on the insides of them. and just so he could go out those few feet now he had a safety cable which we digitally removed that went from the bottom of the chair to one of his legs but if he had really fallen he probably would have just fallen like i don't think that cable did much of anything geez and that guy was in such amazing physical shape because you got to remember those clothes are super heavy and i think the boots we had them wear were fake ski boots so they weren't very heavy because we also established that lynch is a skier the other two are snowboarders right and that's why at the end lynch just sits down on the snowboard and tries to sled down the mountain because people are like if this guy is

such an avid snowboarder why didn't he just click his boots into it and snowboard away he's not a snowboarder yeah and he didn't have the right boots for that but again a lot of people if you don't ski you don't know that right yeah well the next big hurdle that our theory has to overcome is the broken legs so let's talk about the broken legs so this is a compound fracture and it looks really bad but i want to point out the main character of this movie is parker we are in parker's perspective and when he jumps down he tells them everything that we as an audience see he says i broke my leg parker asks how bad is it implying that she can't see what we saw that it's really bad. And Dan says, it's bad. It's really bad. The bone is sticking out of my leg. I think that what we're seeing here is Parker's imagination of what happened. We are seeing her perspective that this is, this is how she imagines what happened to Dan. And that's why she's freaking

out so much. When in reality, when he said he's done it before, but he says, I lied. He, he, he means the opposite. He means like, I've done this before and I'm an expert. It was a self-referential statement. He was lying about the statement, I lied.

Wow. This guy's playing four-dimensional chess with himself. That's why Joe just gives him a look. Like, what are you even doing, man? Just jump. But I do believe that, like I said, the snow-capped person left some fake blood and stuff that he could squirt around. I don't think he actually broke his legs, but I do think that there was some material there that he could use to later on, especially when the wolves show up, to fake his own death. And I just want to mention that this is supported by the fact that the camera never leaves Parker's perception of the world through the entire movie. Earlier in the cafeteria, we only start to hear Dan and Joe's conversation when Parker walks up to them and can hear them. Later in the movie, when Joe skis away, we don't see what happens to him because the camera stays with Parker. It never leaves her. It's all showing her perception, like you said.

Well, there are some moments I would agree with you. And that was the intent. Like any movie, there has to be some sort of character whose eyes we're seeing this story in this world through or experiencing it through, I should say. And there is a moment early on when they send her to go try to bribe the chair operator. Obviously, she screws it all up and ends up basically paying almost full price for them anyway. But that was sort of just kind of foreshadowing that our group does not have the greatest luck. And things that they try to do don't usually work out. But there is a moment where we hang back with them, and that's where we establish that Dan hasn't been much fun anymore ever since having a serious girlfriend, which at that age, you know, like sort of the college, young 20s, that is a thing between both groups of male friends and female friends. when people start, you know, growing up and partnering up

and you're the one left on the sideline, it sucks. There's a couple little moments like that. But overall, with Frozen, Parker is definitely the main character, even though it's an ensemble. So I can agree with that. But again, this all still has to go back to the fact that this is how badly that these guys didn't want to hang out. right that they did all of this i mean amazing so it's about to get even worse we can prove that we can we can tell you exactly why it's about to get even more ridiculous uh our theory is i mean because this is when the wolves show up we believe these wolves are trained as dan gets quote unquote eaten by these wolves funny i don't remember seeing him getting eaten no no no you don't see him get eaten and neither did parker joe specifically grabs parker's head as she looks down and turns it towards him pulls her away from looking at dan is screaming don't let her watch

don't you let her look right like dan's giving joe the signal that their magic act is about to take place he's gonna pull a disappearing act and she needs to not be looking joe obliges and pulls her head away and puts two hands on either side of her face and forces her to stare him in the eyes until the wolves and dan are all gone the more we talk about this the more i actually respect these people like they are amazing what an amazing magic act they came up with at this point dan gets eaten in air quotes uh but actually i believe that he gets up walks away he joins the snowcat driver who actually stayed close by and they just drive down the mountain i'm gonna play along here So if that was the case, though, was Dan already, like, friendly with these wolves? Yeah, Dan and Joe had hung out with them. Right, they're trans. Okay, all right. Now, they do even point out, one of them says, how many wolf attacks are there in New England?

Why is this in there unless it is a clue left by, you know, our genius director telling us that his purpose was to show us that this wolf attack is a little bit fishy and we should look a little closer into it. Well, um, in, in real life, uh, there have been very, very, very few wolf attacks in New England because normally wolves are kind of cowardly animals. There was one that we found where I want to say it was Okimo in Vermont, but I, again, I don't remember, but, uh, there was something that had happened where a wolf kind of got aggressive with a, I think it was a kid and the kid uh scared the wolf away by just swinging his snowboard and the wolf ultimately left him alone but gray wolves are almost non-existent in new england and for the last i think maybe 30 years or so they've been trying to reintroduce them and bring them back to that area but it it is incredibly rare that something like that would happen especially to the same group of

people who mistakenly group of people yeah and that's where i always try to remind people it's not a documentary it's a movie and uh at one point the producers wanted to say inspired by true events because separately uh you could say it was like it has happened that people have been forgotten yeah i was very much against that though because it it wasn't inspired by true events like it's it's one of those what would you do type scenarios it's just a survival thriller and it plays on very real emotions of heights claustrophobia isolation that was the extent of the realism for me so thankfully they didn't do that because you know once a movie is acquired it's not up to you what the poster is going to be what their what quotes they're going to use on it i actually had a lot of problems with the poster for Frozen because it looks cool and it's eye-catching. But some simple things that they could have fixed. One is that the chair is on the wrong side of the lift.

Yeah, it is. Let's also take into account that they're about six miles up from the ground. But okay. The other is that for some reason, they added a belt to Lynch's character. If he had a belt, he could have gotten fucking down and i'm like i'm like if if anything just take the belt off like you added that why did you add it oh it just looks good i'm like okay but there's problems with it so that always frustrated me because that is infuriating i can hear it i can hear people i never really heard it but i can hear people in the lobby who saw the trailer looking at the poster and saying, you can't make a movie with three people in a chair. This is the stupidest idea for a movie ever. And look, he's got a fucking belt on. Right. Why didn't he just use the belt? I did have a, just like a little making of question. Did you use wolves or did you use trained dogs that looked like wolves? Those are wolves. There was

one that was a mix. It was half wolf, half maybe German Shepherd or something. But you don't see him in the movie. That was, his name was Mister. so sled reynolds who was the trainer sled did dances with wolves he did narnia like he's like the wolf guy and i learned so much about wolves working on this movie and sled and his team were so generous with all of us with the amount of information they shared with us even like the very first day he was like if i tell you that one of my animals can do something then they can do it and they will do it if i tell you they can't that's the end of it that's the answer yeah and Wolves are not like dogs. You can't just train them to do all these tricks and stuff. They're only motivated by hunger and that's it. So unless there's food in it for them, they're not doing it. Like one of the rules was not to make eye contact with them because there's the potential for one

of them taking that as a challenge. The cast had to be really quiet when we were shooting the scenes with Sean and Emma in the air above them, because if they notice something above them, they'll be too scared and they won't do anything. Mister was supposed to do the bit where he runs at Ashmore and grabs onto his arm and knocks him down. And Mister unfortunately passed away right before we started filming. So we didn't find out, because we were already, I think, two weeks into filming when Sled and his team got to Utah with the Wolves. And that's when we found out Mister had passed away, which was incredibly sad, Cause I mean, that was his, you know, personal dog too. And he said, so these are the options. He was like, we could try to color the hair of one of these other dogs we have, or there's this other dog that we have named Dart, who is incredibly well-trained, who, you know, if we give him the command, he will go flying at him and take him down and it'll be great.

And I was like, okay, well then there we go. That's the answer. And there, everyone's kind of looking at me. I'm like, what's wrong with Dart? And like, Dart's a border collie. I'm like, how is this going to work? He's like, well, if you shoot it from the right angle. And that's what we ended up doing. It's a border collie that goes running at length. And Kane Hodder and I, going back to the first hatchet, we love to pull pranks on people on set. And we're very immature. We shouldn't do it. And we certainly shouldn't be in charge of things, but somehow we are. So we saw a great opportunity to mess with Ashmore Cain went into Sean's trailer as the stunt coordinator and said, did you see the dog that Green wants you to wrestle with? It's part wolf, part mastiff. He's like, I've never seen an animal this big. Oh, no. He goes, personally, I wouldn't do it, and I'm not comfortable with this,

but it's your call. And Sean's just looking at him like, oh, shit. And Cain goes, listen, when you see the dog, if you're not comfortable in any way, you just give me a look and I'll call it and say, no, we're not doing this. And Sean is like, thank you. Thank you so much. So Cain leaves and then I go in and I'm like, it should be fine. I kept saying should with everything. And I'm like, but listen, if for any reason, when you see this dog, you don't want to do it, just give me a look and I'll, I'll just say no. And he's like, all right, cool. And Cain's outside laughing and I'm laughing. And so the moment comes and they bring out this big cage and you can see the terror in Sean's face. And so all of a sudden you hear him go, Cain, Cain. And Cain just won't look at him. And finally, Cain kind of gives him a glance and Sean starts nodding up and down like, and Cain just gives him a thumbs up and goes back to looking at his phone.

And then Sean's like, wait, I'm like, all right, here we go. Let's roll sound. And Sean's like, green green green and i'm like give them the thumbs up and he's like oh shit and they open the door and this little border collie comes running out and everyone starts laughing and clapping and then the border collie beat the living shit out of him this border collie was so aggressive and so into it and this thing could fly through the snow it's like it didn't even need to touch the ground it moved so fast and eventually sean was like give me one of the real wolves cause I can't take this anymore. Sean Ashmore in real life, whatever you're hoping he would be like, that's what he's like. And just the nicest, sweetest, you can't say enough good things about him. So I kind of felt bad messing with him. But if there was one person on that set that could take it and find it funny, it was him. And he was such a good sport about it. So yeah, but that's

the story of the wolves that is great that's an amazing story nice to hear you know kind of a a complicated prank planned within this movie about a big complicated prank I just revealed myself didn't you you showed us your true colors so the wolves have in air quotes eaten Dan and that brings us to the cafeteria scene part two do you want to talk about that Torvald? So it's at this point that it feels like Joe finally opens up to Parker and Joe tells her about his one serious girlfriend that he's ever had. I'm actually really glad you're here, Adam, because I really wanted to talk to you about this scene in particular, which I feel makes this theory for me. Okay. In his story, he dumped his only girlfriend. And Parker is surprised by this. She's like, what? You dumped her? He says, yeah, we were in a cafeteria. We were talking and I was facing a wall. I was facing her. She was facing everyone behind me.

And he says, I kept seeing her like, you know, looking at somebody like, you know, kind of laughing. And I was just like, you know, what's so funny? You know, I was like, what the hell is going on? And she said, this guy, Dean, he's making fun of you. So I turn around and I'm just ready to beat the shit out of this guy. And he's like, all I can see are these faces, these random people. this guy was making eyes at my girl and could see me, but I couldn't see him. And then Parker says, that's messed up. And he says, I never felt so stupid. I just walked out. She says, you just walked out? He says, yeah, I just, I told you to laugh it up with Dean, the frat guy. I was out. Maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to walk away. You know, maybe I should have had a thicker skin been not been such a sensitive bitch. Sometimes I feel like I was just insecure. Maybe I screwed up. And then she says, what happened to the girl?

And he says, she's dating Dean, the frat guy. Now, this is really important because what other scene in this movie happens in a cafeteria? The scene where they're hatching this plan. But more importantly, he plays the same role in that scene as he did in his horror story about his emotional trauma. He's talking to his best friend, the guy who he cares about. They're bros. They're in it together for life. something he doesn't know is happening behind him which is parker walking up behind him right and his best friend keeps looking at parker instead of him and then parker walks up and makes him look stupid right he never felt so stupid he just wants to walk out of there right and she is dating his best friend dan just like dean the frat guy ended up dating his girlfriend who was looking at him right it's the exact same story and i think this could not be a coincidence this is purposefully written he is telling the story of what happened in the cafeteria

this absolutely has to be not us twisting anything like the obvious parallel this is the most evidence we have for this entire theory he's basically saying you took away my bro my best friend right like just like the story where that you know dean the frat guy took away my girlfriend you are taking away my best bro and then in the story he says maybe i should have turned around and beat the shit out of this guy right like he's saying i'm not gonna let it happen again this time i'm gonna beat the shit out of you parker i'm gonna make you pay you're not gonna get my best friend i'm gonna change things this time right i think this shows joe's absolute genius he manages to tell this story and yet does it in a way where he's getting parker to sympathize with him well okay wait though i mean from what you guys are saying this plan this big elaborate plan to not hang out with someone's girlfriend would have been would have been hatched

long before that moment in the lodge. No, definitely. And he just used that moment. Like this is him telling her, right? Like he is making it clear to her why they're doing this because she's taking away his friend and he's just using that scene to illustrate it, right? He's using the whole cafeteria thing. He's showing every time you're around, I feel humiliated and i feel like my friend is leaving me so i want you gone right to me those two his story and that scene are so similar i just can't see it any other way when when torvald first pitched this uh this theory to me at first i was like no way but then we got to this point in the theory and i was like i don't know maybe there's something to this i mean um okay well my intention with that that story you know okay look at this last year how many times did you or other people you know kind of rethink their lives over this last year of the pandemic and you start second guessing all your choices like did i pick the right career like

what would have happened if I had stayed, like, you just sort of do when, when you're faced with your own mortality. And, you know, it was a very hard year for everybody. But so now that he's in this position, he's of course, you know, second guessing his own life choices. And when she asks, why aren't you dating anybody? And that one thing hurt him enough to just not be willing to take that chance anymore that story and the story that he tells about how he first met dan that dan couldn't stop crying in first grade and had to both of those are from my real life like my best friend from childhood that's how we met he couldn't stop crying for some reason and when the teacher said is there do you know anyone in the class you want to sit with he picked me and i had never seen before in my life and we ended up becoming best friends and then the cafeteria story my childhood sweetheart like we were together forever since we were little little kids and then halfway through

college there was just some guy that was you just you want you know when some dude's out to bang your girlfriend the moment you meet him and this guy was just all about it and I knew it and and then when that moment happened where he could see me I because I didn't know what he looked like And I couldn't see him. And I'm just, you're, you feel so defenseless and stupid and small that like, he could have been five feet away from me. I wouldn't know. But those moments really are just meant to ground the characters and make them even more three-dimensional, which, cause I remember at one point the producers said, the moment he says, do you want to hear another story? Our response was no, no, no more stories. Like get, show more wolves, get more stuff going. And I was like, I get it, but you've also seen this 50 times. And, um, the average person is going to see it once. And I feel at this point, we've earned the right to get to know these people even more.

And, uh, and I think the audience will appreciate that because they're in it at this point with these characters, they're real. I just wanted them to feel as real as possible and have real experiences. And and the more specific you can be when you're writing something like that, the more the audience will connect with it. Parker's story that her first fear was who's going to take care of my dog if I die. Yeah, that was really good. That was very human. That was her audition piece. And I don't really love flying. And it's something no one really tells you when you pick this as a career, how much flying you're going to be doing with appearances, film festivals. And every time a plane hits turbulence, my first thought is my dog, Arwen, that was the audition piece. And Emma Bell was the very first person to come in and audition. And she did that speech and she's crying. I'm crying. The casting director's crying and she leaves.

And I'm like, her, she's the girl. And the producers are like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, okay, you can't cast the first person to walk in the door. and five more weeks of auditions and in the end it was her she set the bar so high because she's just she's real it was like i had met her before i wrote it or something she was so perfect from the moment i saw her and um and i'm so proud of her too and i love that in that movie with the credits it says and introducing emma bell because she went from that to final destination five to the walking dead to dallas like um and that that was like her first real role and that uh directors that i look up to like frank darabont that he at some point had watched it and was like yeah she's the right one for the walking dead the worst direction i've ever given an actor was on frozen i just i don't i was too excited or whatever but it came out i said and emma and

she says yeah because okay the way to speak to them sean had a walkie-talkie in his coat and i was below them on the ground and so i would speak into the walkie and you they would hear my voice through sean's coat and i said uh okay sean blah blah blah for the next take and emma um um more better what the fuck is that what kind of direction is that and she never let me forget that one so not my more better not my finest moment of direction hey but it worked right yes you got the performance she was like that's what i needed to hear that must have been really challenging directing them through a walkie-talkie though with them like way 50 feet up in the air it was but they were so good and so committed and we all did the work before getting to that point. And so there was never a question of what's my motivation here. But I also had a pact with them that since they couldn't get down or go to the bathroom or anything

that I wouldn't go to the bathroom either. And I wouldn't eat or drink. And so I always stayed where they could see me. And, you know, I talk about that, like I'm some sort of hero. They were like go to the bathroom we don't care we don't care and i'm like no i'm in it with you and they're like and i could hear them because they're mike they're like why is he doing this i really don't give a shit if he eats or drinks it doesn't it doesn't help us at all but i'm like i'm doing it and i always had a different type of chocolate for emma any of the nights that she had to cry when she would get off the chair because they had to ride it chairlifts don't move backwards at least this one didn't so when we would wrap they had 45 more minutes where they had to go all the way up to the top and around again and any night that i made her cry i mean not like i made her cry i just her character had to cry i would have a different type of chocolate waiting

for her because she loved chocolate and in the beginning i didn't realize how many nights i was going to put her through it and how many different types of chocolate I would need to find and eat in Utah in the middle of winter. And I swear to God, by the last night, there was no more chocolate left that I would have been able to find and still be changing it up. You've sampled every chocolate in Utah. Every kind. Honestly, I'm really jealous. The people that you've worked with, like amabelle sean ashmore kane hotter and in in the hatchet franchise he worked with danielle harris tony todd like i'm i'm legitimately jealous you know i'm still just a fan you know and it i always am stopping and being like this is so fucking cool that's candy man and that's and there's just such wonderful people and i'm so lucky because you know what if what if they had been assholes what if they had been awful people um and with my tv series Holliston the

fact that I write roles for these people where they play terrible versions of themselves and that they're so game to do it like Danielle Harris being addicted to Vicodin and making me go get teeth pulled so I'll give her my pills and like you know it's it's obviously she's nothing like that in her life or she wouldn't do it. Um, you just need to give them a chance. And I think you get pigeonholed when you end up playing a villain in a horror movie that becomes iconic. And then that's how everyone sees you. Like Robert England will always be Freddie and everyone thinks of Tony Todd has done so many incredible roles and incredible films, but people just think of him as Candyman. It's always Candyman. Yep. Yeah. It's his voice. But when you give him a chance to actually do comedy in front of an audience on a sitcom and watch him shine the way he did it's just it's just great and i hope i hope more people do that and give them chances to do things that

they're not known for i mean kane was jason he was the guy in the faceless mask who just you know we all love the best of all the guys in the faceless mass and um giving him emotional roles to play, or comedy, and letting people see that this guy is an actor. I'm just so lucky that they trust me the way that they have. Definitely. I agree. Back to the... I think the next part of our theory is when Joe manages to get down, and then the wolves attack him, as we already talked about a little bit. These wolves jump at him, and of course, we're saying that these wolves are trained by Joe. Now, there is one brief shot where Joe says, stay back. And then you get a shot of the wolves and they actually jump back. And I think that's just a tiny little proof that, hey, these guys are well-trained. They knew Joe. He says, stay back. Like, he's just acting for Parker's benefit, but they just jump back because they hear their

master say, stay back. And then when he hits one, it yelps, you know, like, oh, I just got hit by my master. And then when he sleds away, they follow him just like a trained dog would follow their master. but this brings us to another important point for our theory is that we don't see joe or dan die both of them die off screen and while we do see a body later like you know that could have been some meat that he threw together right it's some meat that the dogs are eating uh that's their reward uh with some ripped clothes you know maybe this or or maybe they murdered somebody earlier I mean, at this point, fuck it. They're going so far. You might as well go all the way, right?

Okay. I just wanted to mention the fact that we don't see them die, I think is, is important because this is an Adam Green movie, right? Like, have you ever seen Hatchet? Like the deaths in those movies are so over the top, right? The fact that this is a horror movie, an Adam Green horror movie and what's the the kill count in this movie zero we never see a death I think that's important right like it would never happen unless Adam Green is trying to tell us these two boys did not die right originally it was sort of designed that Frozen was going to be put out by Overture which is no longer in business but Overture was the theatrical arm of Starz corporation and then there was anchor bay which was more of their home video with limited theatricals and uh overture was going out of business and no they weren't admitting that yet we didn't know it but when they first saw the movie one of their comments was you know the movie just didn't go

there and we were like how so and they said when you hear from the producer of saw and the director of hatchet you know you want one thing and it's not and we're like well it's not it's a survival thriller it's not a slasher movie and they just like that was like something's not right here why why are they even saying that and then it turns out oh because they have no more money and they're done um but they don't want to say that so um but they tested the movie and we were against that we were like, unless you're going to test this with an audience of people that ski, then don't bother because otherwise it's going to be a discussion about skiing. And why don't you just test the materials, test the trailer, test the poster. And no, they tested it and they tested it in Chatsworth where there's never been snow and no one in the audience had ever been skiing. And some of the comments and they take all of them seriously. And these are like career test

audiences they go every week because it's free and they'll watch anything and then complain about it afterwards and one of the comments was bitch didn't get a titty out and i'm like okay obviously you immediately throw that one in the trash but i think there was an actual conversation like did you maybe shoot something or what like gosh already there's people that are like why don't they zip their coats all the way up over their mouths. Like, okay. Do you want to watch that movie? Like, just shut up and leave it to us. Like, um, yes, they probably could have gotten their coats up a little bit more or they could, they're like, I would have just kept my face in my hands the entire time. Okay. It's a movie though. Like at some point, don't you want to see the actors act? Don't you want to see them speak? Um, and also to, uh, not that you can expect people to realize it but the once we started hitting them with the hail and the snow most of

which was real we were just fortunate um the zippers were frozen anyway so because in between takes they would try to zip it up just to warm up and it they would only go so far so um but that's not something you can really stop and explain in a movie like i wish i could zip this up further but because it's gotten wet and frozen it will only go this far like that would be some great And very useful exposition there.

That's about it for the movie. She gets to a road, the car stops, a guy gets out, picks her up and says, hold on, I'm taking you to a hospital. And it closes as she kind of looks out the window and closes her eyes and it fades to black and that's it. Okay, okay. We seem crazy, right? We just twisted this whole story around. something that no one would think the biggest problem with this theory is that this is an almost cartoonishly nefarious plan right like these two are are diabolical villains you know the tone of frozen i think is actually fairly kind of down to earth our crazy plan that these guys had that we're saying does kind of conflict with that tone and that's kind of where you might be like no there's no way that plan is just too weird. But this movie is in the same universe as the Hatchet series. So let's look at the universe of Hatchet, which I think gives this theory a lot more

credibility. So in Hatchet 2, Danielle Harris manages to get away from Victor Crowley, who was attacking her from the previous film. She meets Tony Todd, who is just an amazing actor. I love tony todd she walks into a shop one thing i have to point out about this scene and actually one of the best parts of hatchet 2 danielle harris next to tony todd she looks like a tiny little rag doll like she is so short and he is so tall like you see tony todd standing next to to victor crowley next to kane hodder he makes kane hodder look like a normal-sized person like i did not realize Tony Todd was so huge so that's not important so she walks into his shop and on the tv there's a news broadcast playing and we see Emma Bell that's the actor but it's Parker from the movie Frozen it says that uh basically that she has settled her lawsuit with the ski resort and she's also saying I'll never go skiing again that's it that's all she says it's a very like it's one second of

film. So let's look at some characters in the Hatchet franchise. What kind of universe are we dealing with? So there's a guy in the first Hatchet movie who pretends that he is a film producer and he hires actors who are women and he pays them to essentially just take off their clothes and he films it on just like a handheld video camera. And he has this scheme where it turns out he's giving everyone a false name he's not a movie producer he's like i forget what like an accountant or something and he's actually just getting these actors to do this for him for his own private porn collection oh no that's not a good idea even in like 2006 when this was made there was still free porn on the internet he's paying these actors that's a terrible idea you might as well make a movie and and and sell it you know is you're getting something that's free you're paying for it and you're committing a crime while you're doing it like it's the worst

idea so what he has a really harebrained scheme and it doesn't make a lot of sense oh that sounds kind of familiar yeah it sounds a lot like a movie we just talked about right and so if we look at the universe as a whole this is a universe where there are psychotic strange people who have hair-brained crazy schemes and dan and joe are two of those people in that universe um well that is a those are some great lengths to go to not hang out with your friend's girlfriend i i will say we have one more piece of evidence and that is since we mentioned hatchet the biggest problem here is okay so well i mean we've proven that clearly these two people didn't die but where's the real proof. Do we ever see one of them alive again? Well, in Hatchet 2, there is a very brief little scene in a montage of Victor Crowley killing people. One of the people killed is Sean Ashmore in a little cameo. And since it's a shared universe and we're not given another name

for him, we have to assume that this is Joe. He faked his death. He rethought his life, Just like you said, thought of all his regrets, decided, I'm going to start a new life. He decided to move down to Florida, be a gator hunter, and unfortunately got killed by Victor Crowley. I just don't see any other explanation unless, you know, Joe has an identical twin. But what are the odds of that? Well, he does. I know. But I think this is where your theory falls apart, because the montage is about the past. Yeah, it's true. And so he would have been dead before Frozen happened. So it would have to have been Aaron Ashmore playing Joe Lynch on the chair. Incidentally, the real Joe Lynch is also in that montage and he gets his jaw pulled off. So you have Sean Ashmore who played Joe Lynch. And that's how little effort I put into naming a lot of characters. It's just my friends' names. Because usually it's temporary.

I'm always thinking, I'll go in and change that. to a different name. But for now, I'm just going to use my friends' names and then it ends up sticking. And then you end up doing a podcast with Joe Lynch for eight years. And now when people watch Frozen, it's so weird. It's like, it's not just Lynch or Joe, it's literally Joe Lynch, really? Like you couldn't come up with something better? That is a crazy theory. And I do have films that are purposely made to make people think and come up with bits and pieces for themselves. Like with Spiral, we never show the inside of his bathroom that he's afraid to go into. And with Digging Up the Marrow, there's purposely things that we don't answer about Decker's son. And this is the part that's usually so much fun as the filmmaker is hearing the creative things that people come up with and what they think it could have been. And so with this, it wasn't intended to make people wonder the things that you guys are wondering, which is why

I love this. I love your imaginations. I think this is amazing. I can't wait to share it with the cast. Um, whenever this comes out, I really hope you do. I definitely believe me. I will. Um, there's something about this movie where every few years, it sort of comes around again in popularity. And just, I think last month or February, it was like the number two movie on Hulu for a few days. And it's not like anyone was promoting it or it just sort of happened. because word of mouth again, I guess. And it's great to see that keep happening and that recently on the Movie Crypt, on my podcast, we have a fairly new segment called The Unpopular Opinion where Joe or I will make a pretty brash statement and do a little like rant about it. And the first one that I did, the statement was movies are dead. Because everything has become like free or next to it and you have these streaming platforms

that just have hundreds or thousands of titles and they're just these thumbnails. And when something isn't on the front page of new releases or whatever, it may as well not even exist to a lot of people. And it's sad to see that happen. How many times have you like before bed opened up Netflix and never wound up watching anything? You just scrolled for 20 minutes and then fell asleep. Like, so they just don't, it doesn't feel like they mean what they used to mean. So when you hear something like this and that you guys put this much thought into something, it completely annihilates my theory and, and which is great because I don't want my theory to be true. And, um, it's, especially right now with the pandemic, hopefully ending and life starting to come back and all these productions starting to get going again, you find yourself thinking, man, is it so worth going through this when you're just going to be a thumbnail for a

few weeks and then maybe forgotten. And, um, you guys reminded me that it is very much worth it. And, uh, and I really, really appreciate it. And I'm very glad that I, that I did this. So I will certainly share this and I don't want to completely shoot down your theory, but No, go for it if you want Okay, your theory is wrong But very interesting, very interesting Our hearts were in the right place Thank you Yes, yes, and your imaginations are great And I hope you guys are writing your own stuff that I get to see someday We're so grateful that you came on and talked to us and you're so nice to listen to our theory. No, seriously, thank you so much for being here. It really means a lot to both of us. I personally feel that, like, I mean, your inspirations may have been, like you said, Frank Darabont or George Romero, but I think the upcoming filmmakers, especially in horror, are going to say,

eventually, you know, Adam Green was my inspiration. To those people, I'm sorry.

May I suggest James Wan?

Um, but thank you guys a lot. I really do appreciate you taking the time to talk about frozen and, and all the thought that you put into it. It's, it's fantastic. Our call to action for you, dear listeners is now that you've heard this theory, now you, now that you know what frozen is about, go watch the movie, rent it, buy it. We, we leave a link to the movie in the description of every single episode. So click that link, watch the movie, and you'll see for yourself that this theory is not just a theory. This is how the movie is. It's clear as day. Go watch the movie and you'll know. Absolutely. So thank you so much for listening. Music for this episode is provided by Christine. If you like our podcast, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe on whatever platform you get your podcasts. Since you're the guest, if you would like to play us out, the floor is yours. Thank you guys for listening. And remember,

the popcorn isn't real.