Gruber's Mole at Nakatomi (Christmas Special)

Who do you think would win in a fight? So we've got Hans Gruber from Die Hard, played by Alan Rickman, versus, I guess his name was Bentley, played by Patrick Stewart from Masterminds. I never even knew his name, but who would win? I mean, his name was Picard. Hans Gruber, we all know what he managed to do, right? Yeah, okay, he like blew up one floor of a skyscraper, but what a big deal. Bentley, Picard, managed to take over an entire school, like a middle school. You know, how impressive is that? And then he got beaten by a middle schooler. He got beaten by Vincent Cartheiser. He had a big drill. He drove around in a go-kart in the sewers. He took off his shirt and randomly said, United, United. Yes, he did do that. I never really understood why. Dude, why are we doing a Die Hard episode? We could be doing a Masterminds episode. I know, I really want to. We should do that next. Masterminds is like cheap cookie cutter Die Hard.

All right, no, but everything was after Die Hard got made. Everything was Die Hard in a, and then you say the thing. That's true. Like Die Hard in a bus that won't slow down. Die Hard on a cruise ship that won't slow down.

Most of them were named Speed. Die Hard when you're home alone. That's not Die Hard. No, what other actual budget Die Hard movies are there? There's Masterminds. That's definitely budget Die Hard. What else do we got? Well, I mean, you don't really remember a lot of those movies because they're not memorable because they were just copies of Die Hard. Well, this episode is about Die Hard. 1988, directed by John McTiernan. Yeah, dude, John McTiernan. Also, the screenplay was by Jeb Stewart and Stephen E. D'Souza. Steven DeSouza stated in an interview that he wrote the script of Die Hard as if Hans Gruber was the protagonist. And clearly, McLean's the hero. Like, we're not debating that. But he wrote it from, like, Hans Gruber's point of view as if he's the driving force behind the movie. And I thought that's kind of cool because he is. Like, Hans Gruber's the one doing it. If it wasn't for Hans Gruber, this would have been a really short movie about John McLean, kind of an awkward guy going to an awkward party with his wife

and either making up with her or not right probably not because he was actively sabotaging himself really going off on her anyway it's kind of cool if you think about it everything that happens in this movie is driven by hans gruber he is the protagonist and it's cool because i mean even though he's the hero it makes john mcclain into the villain because he's the one sabotaging hans gruber's efforts to achieve his goal right it's it's kind of interesting and it makes hans grouper a really good villain though like you can see his goals you can see what he's doing to meet his goals and you can also see where he's been thwarted and you kind of want him to succeed because he can see he's trying so hard right right and he's alan rickman and he's alan rickman yeah no i mean that's a good point and while i was watching it i was thinking like you know if you told this from the reverse perspective it's like a slasher like there's this this it is like grizzled

retired ex-cop just in the building where you're just trying to pull a heist man yes and he's killing off all of your men no it's it's like um don't breathe yeah no that's what i was actually thinking that the only other thing i could think that's similar to it is don't breathe no that's exactly what i thought unfortunately that's like way smaller scale like i want to see one on the same scale as diehard that's like an action movie but actually a slasher i could totally see them making like a Die Hard huge budget heist movie as a Friday the 13th movie where Jason shows up in the building and starts killing them. They would do that. That'd be cool. I'd go watch it. I think one of the reasons that Die Hard is so great is because all the characters, even the background henchmen all feel like people and they accomplish that without giving them any backstory or dumb flashbacks or anything like that. They just feel real. And that's one of the reasons the movie

works, unlike other action movies that kind of copied it. Do you think that comes from the movie being based on a novel? Because I think a lot of movies based on novels tend to have just better characters in general. But I don't know. What do you think? It could be. Yeah. So this was based on a novel called Nothing Lasts Forever by Roderick Thorpe. And it could be that some of the characters had more backstory because of the novel. And that found its way in when the screenwriters were writing it and when everyone else was making it. But I also think that it probably has a lot to do with john mctiernan like in predator he manages to make that entire group walking meatbags right into people like in any other slasher you wouldn't care about any of those people but he actually does a good job humanizing them and so you actually kind of care even though you know they're walking meatbags they're just gonna get killed so you think this

is less about the writing and not not maligning the writing because i actually think the writing and diehard is superb but you think this is more about the directing yeah i think so because like i said in books and novels a lot of times you get extra backstory about characters like what they're thinking and maybe they reminisce a little you see their past this all of the humanizing of the characters is done just through little things that they do in every scene right we don't know anything about their backstory we barely know their names right except that john writes a few of them down but that's why yeah when i was watching it i was thinking like i mean not to give hollywood any bad ideas but like with how much they've tried to milk the diehard franchise and with how expanded universes are so popular right now. Like, why haven't they done a prequel about Hans' crew? Like, on their first...

I was thinking the same thing, but then I got real sad because Alan Rickman's dead. Right, well, they'd have to recast everyone. That's why I'm saying a prequel when they were younger, you know? Yeah, that's true. And I'm like, who could fill the shoes of Alan Rickman? I know that. But still, like, I would watch how Hans Gruber met Theo and Carl and Tony, you know? That would be fun. Well, I was actually thinking about it, and I was like, man, if only they hadn't taken like the Fast and the Furious route and brought Hans Gruber back from the dead and also made him join the team. That would have been so cool. They absolutely would have done that if it had been made post-2010. Oh, man. That would have been amazing. Oh, my gosh. One other note just that I thought was interesting about it originating as a novel. The whole book is just one really bad night for the main character. The weird thing is, though, that everyone has different names.

Like John McClane isn't named John McClane. I forget his name, but it's something else. And also he's like, he's an old detective and he's not going to visit his wife. His wife is dead and divorced from him, but he's going to visit his daughter in California. The terrorists are actually terrorists. Yeah. What I was trying to point out here is that that book is actually a sequel, which makes Die Hard a sequel because the prequel book, The Detective, also by Roderick Thorpe, was made into a movie called the detective came out in 1968 so it was really old but it was starring frank sinatra because this was a sequel frank sinatra had like a lifelong contract that if they ever made a sequel he would have the right to the first dibs on that character again so they had to offer it to him so they went to like 80 year old frank sinatra and they're like hey do you want to He's going to crawl around in some vents.

Bad action hero. And he had to be like, no, no, give it to someone else. But I just thought that was kind of interesting. Oh, yippee-ki-yay. That's not Frank Sinatra's voice. It's not at all. You're doing like Jimmy Stewart. Yeah, that's Jimmy Stewart. By the way, happy holidays, everyone. This is our Christmas episode. Hey, we've got quite a show for you today. This is our Christmas episode. We've got some great theories about one of the greatest Christmas movies of all time, Die Hard. I have two theories that I actually found, and I think that they kind of both combine well together. So I'm going to see how I do it combining them. One is a theory by a user on Reddit named Chairrug3264. Wow. I guess 3,263 other people also wanted to be named Chairrug. who wouldn't want to be named chair rung and that theory is that this whole heist was an inside job they had an in a person on the inside that person was holly jennaro john mcclain's wife and she

actually wanted john mcclain to get killed so we'll get into that i mean i think the first reaction to that theory is no she wasn't yeah that's my reaction we'll see we'll see we'll see how we feel by the end. The next one I like to call Gruber's Five. It's a theory by another Reddit user whose name is Thistle Music. And his theory is just that one of the movie's biggest plot holes that apparently people have pointed out, I never thought of this, is that their getaway car is an ambulance, but it is much too small to fit all 12 of Hans Gruber's crew. And also like they took a bunch of stuff out of the vault too. Like they not only took bonds and stuff but they also took some like the ancient artifacts and things that were being stored in that right yeah they were taking a lot of stuff for no reason also there's no way all 12 of hans or well i guess only nine of them were in the back of the truck but there's no way they fit in

the back of that truck with an ambulance well that's another thing that i was going to point out so the the bigger plot hole to me is that when hans gruber and his crew when their truck pulls in to the nakatomi plaza it opens up we see directly into the truck as the people get out there's no ambulance in there. Like, there literally isn't an ambulance. You can see in the entire truck. And the reason for this is actually that they started production before the script was finalized. Like, they were still tweaking the ending. And it was only, like, right near the end that they decided, we're going to have them escape in an ambulance. And they just kind of added that in at the end for whatever reason. So anyway, but this user on Reddit, his theory is just that Hans Gruber only intended on taking a few people with him. And I'm going to say he was intending on taking five people with him. And we'll talk about how I got to that.

Well, what about the rest of his crew? He was going to let them die or get caught. Okay, so this is another major part of Hans Gruber's plan, which was to blow up all the hostages on the top floor of the building. And you're saying he was just going to blow up his crew as well. Yeah, I think he was planning on blowing up some of his crew. But also he was preparing for a literal siege by the police and FBI. Like he knew a lot of his men were going to die, I think. Like there's no way that they would all survive. The police and FBI killed a grand total of zero of Hans' men. No, it's true, which is unbelievable, right? John McClane killed all of them, every single one, except Theo. That's true. Theo survived, and possibly Theo's assistant survived. Not sure about that. We don't really see him. Okay, so two theories. One is that Holly, his wife slash ex-wife almost, she is doing some sort of sabotage.

She led Gruber here and she was feeding him insider information, maybe even wanted to kill John. The other half is that Gruber had no plan to save his entire crew. Yeah. So, I mean, first, let's just talk about Holly. Yeah. She's like a businesswoman, but does she have it in her to be like, hey, evil murderous terrorists, come kill everyone? like is her main motive like i want my husband dead because she didn't seem to hate him that much but i think she's kind of doing this out of protection i think she's been controlled by a misogynistic husband her whole life and she's finally got some freedom and she is like making bank she's like second in command to mr takagi himself right she thinks they're going to get divorced soon and she doesn't want him to take half of her wealth and killing him off thing would probably be the least messy way of doing it. I mean, killing him off lets her keep all of her wealth.

Well, one thing that John McTiernan said about the original script was that the John McClane character was more like a grizzled, old, dirty Harry. And he thought that he wanted to really tone that down and also make John McClane more likable, which is why he made John McClane kind of hate himself, which is why he like talks to himself in a few different scenes. Yeah, and that makes him really likable. Yeah, no, that is what makes his character, right? Like, that's what makes him the hero that everyone loves is those few scenes where we get to see his inner monologue and see that, oh, all the bad things he's doing, he actually does feel bad about it, you know? Yeah. When he first arrives in California, he gets off the plane and a woman jumps into the arms of her boyfriend and John looks at him and he goes, California. Like, first of all, I think this tells us that he has a terrible relationship with his wife if he thinks that.

Right, that's what I was going to say. I think he just isn't getting much love in his life. Like he's like, oh, only in California. No, John, only in your life do you just never see anything like that. Right. When he gets to the party, he's kind of bumping through people. He's super uncomfortable when he's there. Also, the doorman makes him look up his wife's name on this dumb computer just so that he can know that his wife has a different last name than him. When the doorman knows that everyone's on the 30th floor, he says, you're the only one left in the building that's not on the 30th floor. Anyway, so he's in a bad mood. I mean, I just have to say that doorman's security process of allowing people in was just like garbage. Basically, he was like, pick a name in the registry and I'll let you in. He didn't even ask him for the name and then confirm it himself in the registry. Because if he had said Holly McClain, the guard should have turned him away.

so pretty much if hans gruber came in and said hey i'd like to come to this party he would have said okay mr gruber pick a name and you can come to the party right like they didn't even need to kill the guard i mean i guess maybe maybe holly informed him that her husband would be coming and maybe he knew and just wanted to show that she was using her maiden name i don't know yeah Well, I mean, that's obviously the meta reason for why they did that. But also it shows that he's like this blue collar, just everyday average guy who really hates like computers and newfangled things like that. It's pretty cool how they like made a point to show off how like sophisticated and awesome that touch screen computer system was. It's like not really so high tech. Right. It's like the same system from Alien. Yeah. So, all right. Well, I'm going to start with one of my worst evidences in the Holly hitman theory. She calls home and she talks to her daughter, Lucy, and the housekeeper, Paulina. When Lucy asks if daddy is coming home, Holly replies, we'll see what mommy and Santa can do about it.

Now, this seems innocuous enough, but I think maybe she's saying that she'll see what she can do about it in that she's going to make sure daddy doesn't come home. And mommy and Santa. Well, what's Santa's full name? Santa Claus or Saint Klaus? Oh, Klaus, that sounds kind of like a German name, doesn't it? Yeah, except no one on Gruber's team was named Klaus. No, it's true. And I was, like, kind of surprised to find that no one was named Klaus. Yeah. No, the Santa connection's really tenuous. But yeah, the way she said, we'll see what we can do. That could be a little sinister. I don't know, maybe. But then she does ask the maid to make up the spare bedroom just in case. Why would she do that if she's not planning on having him home? I think that's an alibi. Like, Paulina replies that she set up the guest room already. Holly knows Paulina set up the guest room already. I'm sure Paulina always takes care of stuff like that.

I think that Holly knew full well, and she was just calling in so she'd have someone who can say, oh, yeah, she was totally expecting to come back home, right? She had me set up the guest room kind of thing. At first glance in this scene, it really seems like she's kind of hopeful. oh, maybe he will come home. But I say that she's establishing an alibi, and this is supported thematically by the fact that after she hangs up that phone, she turns around, she looks at the picture of John, and she slams it down on her desk so it's face down, you can't see John anymore. Like, why would she do that if she was hopeful that he was coming home? Yeah, I mean, you could say it's because, you know, she's feeling a lot of emotions, and she was like, oh, I hope he'll come home. And then she's like, no, wait, I already left him, you know, slam the picture down. But your version's kind of fun, so I'm willing to entertain it.

So when he goes up the elevator and gets into the party, he starts talking to Mr. Takagi. Takagi, he specifically comments. He says, Holly, she was made for this business. She's tough as nails, right? So maybe that, maybe he's like hinting at how cutthroat she can be. Well, I mean, she is the second in command. When Takagi dies, she's in charge. And as Ellis says, when Ellis is talking to McLean, He says, this party is to celebrate your wife, Holly, because she closed this big deal. And they got her a Rolex. That's a big deal. Like, companies usually give out, like, a really nice watch or something of people as, like, their 50-year anniversary at the company or, like, their retirement present or something, right? So, I mean, one thing that John McTiernan did say was that he turned down this script several times because it was about terrorists. He doesn't like movies about terrorists because he says that there's usually lots of terrible things in those movies.

And so one thing he tried to add in this movie was joy, he said, which is why he said the song Ode to Joy is like the da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It's like plays throughout almost every scene in this movie, right? But he didn't know that it was called Ode to Joy when he first chose it to add joy. All right, well, you know, good choice. It made the movie very epic. The composer of the movie, when he when they told him that they wanted like reworks and remixes of Ode to Joy, I guess he said to them, I will massacre Bach. I will massacre Mozart, but I will not touch Beethoven. Apparently to him, Beethoven was like the untouchable music writer. But then they told him that, well, Ode to Joy was already used in Clockwork Orange. Someone massacred it, you might as well. is so respected it's okay for us to use it here and i guess he was like okay i just want to ask so john when he takes his shirt off in the bathroom when he's like i want to get washed up and takes

off his shoes he also takes off his shirt and he's just wearing a tank top and he's got a big bruise on his shoulder what's with that like yeah well i mean clearly that's because his wife hit him and she's violent she wants to kill him how could you i mean what other explanation is there there you go beat cop certainly wouldn't have ever been in the altercation beat cop oh no all right all right so you want to talk about gruber right yeah let's do it gruber and his men arrive so one thing we know is that they certainly seem to have a lot of inside information about this place. Oh yeah, they have intimate knowledge of this office. Yeah, I don't think there's any way that they have this much information about the office without someone on the inside who was helping them out. So no matter what, there had to have been someone helping them on the inside. Yeah, when they go and Theo the hacker,

like first they take out the doorman, Theo goes straight for the elevator control system, which is on a specific computer, which also having it on a computer, like even today would be really like sophisticated and odd based on, you know, my knowledge of elevator systems, which of course is incomplete. But from what I've seen of like penetration tests and stuff, usually elevators are controlled by like switches, like these switch boxes and stuff that can like section off floors and things like that, not by like a computer system. Right. And of course that's becoming more common today, but not in 1988. Like that, that would have been really weird back then to have it on a computer and he knew it. Like he just walked straight up to that computer and started disabling floors and stuff like he didn't second guess it right um and when the brothers uh yeah when tony is is walking carl but uh yeah no he he knows exactly where he's going as he's going down the corner he says links

like he he these are directions he's saying left right and then left again right like he's trying to remember like he memorized going he reaches this electrical box which by the way had me very confused i didn't know what he was doing he just starts like rerouting wires yeah i was pretty Carl comes and just chops them all. Apparently. Because, like, he thinks he has to do it before Carl cuts the wires. Yes. But, like, if Carl cuts the wires, what does it matter? I don't know. So, from everything I can see, this is the phone lines for the whole building. Like, this is all the phone lines get filtered through this box. And Carl just wants to cut them. I don't know what Anton's doing. Like, I guess he's manually disabling individual phone lines. But why? Why not just cut them? Yeah, well, I mean, he acts like he breathes a sigh of relief at the end when he managed to do it before Carl cuts all of them.

I just. Like the only possible explanation I could have is that they were planning to cut them all, but they wanted a few of them to still work, at least from like their command control center that they were going to set up. And yet they don't ever use them. So he patched those ones out. And yeah, maybe it was like a contingency plan. I don't know. But he's like routing them into his own box that has a bunch of numbers on it. Right. And that's what I'm saying is maybe he is setting up like their own personal phones that they're going to use to call out. Yeah, that could be. Because they don't have cell phones back then, right? Right. So he could just be making sure they have a line out. In the script, Tony and Carl were both very happy to just take a buzzsaw to it and cut them all in the script, in the original script. So I don't know. At some point they changed it to be like, actually, Tony doesn't want to cut them all.

And this could be one of John McTiernan's things he does, just to make the baddies seem a little more human without actually spending too much time on it. It does. It gives them both a little personality. You can see that Tony's the careful one, and Carl's the guy who takes a knife to it and just cuts everything, right? Yeah. But they have intimate knowledge about this building. Hans Gruber knows that if he just takes the guard's badge and puts it up to the door, it will lock the doors. Like, I wouldn't assume that that's what that would do. They also know that there are gates that can come down to fend off against a police siege, right? Yeah, that's pretty odd. So, like, some of this you could say maybe they, I don't know, bribed someone lower. But, like, they know intimate knowledge about that safe, which only the highest executives in the company, I believe, would know that. Which would be either Takage or Ms. Gennaro.

And so that's why I think she is the prime mole candidate here. I agree. So just to take a look at this from a security perspective, I already talked about penetration testing a little bit. Penetration testing is what you call it when you hire an external security company to test your systems to see if they can penetrate them. And the point of this would be to see if your systems are strong enough to stand up against an actual attack or, more importantly, to identify where your systems are lacking and then tighten it up. The idea isn't that your system will be impenetrable. The idea is that you want to get your system as close as possible to impenetrable by penetrating it over and over, right? A lot of the things that they know about this building are the things that a penetration tester would try to gain knowledge of while carrying out their test. For example, if the penetration test team wanted to know where the elevator security controls are, what they could do is have one team member get in the elevator and then pull the emergency switch.

And then that would force the guys at the reception to go in and check the elevator system. And they could have another team member out there at reception watching while they do that, right? So I'm saying maybe Hans Gruber and his team have done little forays into this building already, checking and prodding different parts of the system. Stuff like Gruber knowing about the door lock mechanism could have been as simple as having someone go in, look at the brand on that little card reader, and then research it. Just by researching it, finding the manual for that system, or even making a call to the company that made that system and saying, hey we heard your system's really good we want to install it in our building how does it work and then they'll explain well you see the doorman will get a card when he beeps the card everything locks down right so there are open source ways that you can gain knowledge about these things

or manipulative ways that you can gain knowledge about these things stuff like the route deep inside the building to get to the phone system that's a little more like tougher to say how they got that knowledge unless they have already penetrated this building and been wandering around in there which is also possible. But like you said, probably the easiest way that they could get this information would be through employees. And that is probably the first route that penetration testers would take. A security team would start doing phishing attacks and social engineering attacks on the people who work at the company. Holly would be a very good candidate because she's driven, she's ambitious, she's clearly rising in the ranks real fast, but also she's really new to the company so she's probably not as loyal to the company right like we know she just moved there to join this company specifically right she's only been there six months yes her

ambition plus her lack of loyalty to the company and you know maybe she could be persuaded to help you out right especially if she had an ulterior motive so it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that holly was working with them now i don't think that holly would have known anything about the location of the telephone lines in this building. So I don't think she told them that. Right, but as a high-ranking person in the company, she could find that out. All she would have to do is ask someone and no one's going to question her. The most likely thing that I think they got out of Holly is knowledge about the super secret and really strange vault deep in this building that probably only the highest of the highest people in the company know about, and that would be Holly and Takagi, right? And they know everything about it. They know it has seven locks and they know how each lock works.

Specifically, the hacker Theo, he says, I can cut through all of these locks except for the seventh one, which is an electromagnetic seal, which means the circuits can't be cut locally. Like they have, like I said, intimate knowledge about every system within this company. And specifically that vault, I think only Holly could have told them about. So in my opinion, that is evidence for your case. And I would say only Holly or Takagi, but obviously it wasn't Takagi. And I think one evidence to point out that it was Holly is when they try to get the code from Takagi, I think that Holly probably knew that there was a code, but didn't know about the whole it changes, you know, and it's only set from Japan kind of security that they had. She's just like, I don't know, probably Takagi has it, so you better get him and ask him. And then it turns out that he doesn't know, right? And it's kind of clear that they weren't necessarily intending on killing Takagi to begin with.

If he had the code, they would have used it. But as it turned out, he couldn't do it. So they killed him. One thing I want to say about that scene is just that other than Takagi, there are four people in the room. And they are Hans, Tony, Carl, and Theo. And I think this represents Hans Gruber's inner circle. And these are the main people, I believe, are the candidates who he was going to bring with him when he escapes. Oh, I agree. They take Takagi into the room. they boot up the computer. As they start interrogating him and trying to get the key from him, he says some stuff along the lines of, you want to get into our computers? You won't be able to blackmail our executives. Any information you could get in Tokyo tomorrow when they wake up, they'll just change it. I'm like, yeah, right. Like, what are you talking about, Mr. Takagi? Like, if he thinks they'll get information on, like, the projects that the company is currently

undertaking and then use it to, like, blackmail them by saying, like, we'll expose all your projects to your competitors. They can't just change that. They can't just be like, actually, we're not doing any of those projects, right? Like, I mean, all their projects are already presumably locked in and sold to clients. Anyway, my main point is that it seems like Takagi is just BSing and is very loyal to his company because he's not budging at all and is willing to BS until they shoot him in the head. When they take Takagi, Holly looks directly at Hans Gruber. and Hans Gruber avoids looking at her like he just kind of shyly looks at the ground and walks away and like if he's the terrorist shouldn't it kind of be the other way around like shouldn't she be avoiding looking at him like please don't shoot me please don't shoot me you know and he's the unafraid one but Holly seems very unafraid of Hans Gruber

throughout this entire movie she is yes but also specifically during that scene when Hans Gruber is trying to find Takagi Holly like walks over to Takagi and grabs him right she's singling him out don't move but yeah it's like she's like you said singling him out to gruber right so maybe she is working with him because he's not very uh that's the judas iscariot kiss right there yep i also have to mention hans gruber knows a lot about takagi and he has it memorized he's not even looking at his notes he knows all of his degrees and all the yeah his degrees but also more importantly his internships some of them were just a few months his scholarships like oh my gosh and this is before the internet this before linkedin right like knowing all this stuff about him is pretty impressive and this to me is one of the biggest implications that maybe there's a mole like holly feeding information about the ceo so yeah basically they can't get anything out of

takagi and they shoot him in the head and then only at that point does gruber turn to theo the hacker and say you can break the code can't you and i'm like gruber you should have confirmed this before killing the ceo come on dude i gotta say that i just really love theo like he's probably my favorite character after you know hans gruber and john mcclain when there's a siege of policemen coming he decides to quote the night before christmas instead of quickly relaying the information that they need to not die he's you know he's got a lot of personality as he would put it i want to back up just a little bit when the bad guys are storming the party and i'm going to refer to them as bad guys because they're not terrorists they're just stealing right so they're bad guys so holly seems to be frantically looking for john like she's specifically looking around and then looks at the office and this could be because he's you know her husband right or maybe

she's trying to make sure they kill him right yeah and this this was part of the original user who posted this theory he thinks that she told him to wait in that office so that they could kill him and my theory is a little bit different from his but he believes that he was supposed to be there and she left him there on purpose and that he only just narrowly escaped and the only reason why was because fritz and james were distracted by that topless lady and they stopped for a second to chat james is not really a very german name either yeah like that would be hard to pronounce Not all of his men are German. Two of them are Hispanic at least. And one is American and one is Asian. No, except James is German and I'll tell you why. No, okay. No, that one, you're right. That guy is German. But this also supports the whole Hans wasn't planning on taking everyone with him because clearly some of these people he probably picked up like in LA.

Like maybe Uli, who is the Asian guy, or Eddie, who is the American, or maybe Franco or Marco, who are the Hispanic ones. No, Uli was definitely supposed to get exploded on the roof. The user who originally posited this theory says that John just narrowly escaped and only because those two were distracted. And it's true, they are making a beeline for that office. Like, they're going straight over there. And he says when they get in there, they're totally quiet, even though in all the other rooms you can hear people firing guns, you know, rounding everyone up. I kind of think that maybe just because it fits better with later things that happened, that Holly had not necessarily told Hans Gruber's men that she wanted her husband to be killed. I think she just wanted him to be killed in the explosion. I think she thought that maybe he would be around. Oh, so you think she knew that all the hostages were going to be blown up?

Yes, and we're going to talk about that later on. I took this from a different angle. I thought that she was just a mole. Like, she did not know the extent that these guys were going to attack her company. She probably thought they were just like a rival company and that she was feeding them information. That was how I took it, was that she was surprised by all of this. And there are many ways to fit this completely unbelievable theory. But I think for reasons that I'll point out later as we get to it, that she actually knew about the plan and only a few people in Hans Gruber's circle knew about the plan to blow up the building. You said when Fritz and James get to John McLean's room that they're quiet. They're not actually quiet. They start talking to each other in German. And as far as I can understand, it seems like Fritz says something about das Spitzen Stereoanlage, which means like great stereo system.

system right okay and then fritz responds and says ich habe zwei davon in berlin which means i've got two of them in berlin so and this kind of puts a hole in that part of the theory because it sounds like they weren't expecting to find anyone and they're just admiring the sound system well i'm not i'm not following that theory anyway because i don't i don't think that's what holly's plan was all right all right so they kill takagi they know that they're gonna have to burst through these seven seals which by the way do you think there's some kind of meaning behind the seven seals guarding the four horsemen of the apocalypse i mean hans theo tony and carl and holly oh wait no wait holly is judas like you said right yeah so tony goes to get john and john kills him it's funny that tony assumes that bruce willis will not hurt him because he is a policeman and there are rules for policemen and i guess it's true there just weren't as many

cameras back in the 80s but of course now we're like yeah a policeman would totally shoot him he's holding an automatic machine gun like like no matter what everyone would call him a hero if he shot that guy right like if if i was all alone holding a machine gun and a policeman had a gun to my head i would just immediately be like okay i'm dead this is it goodbye world right like Nothing could save me at that point because no policeman on earth would not kill me. What's crazy is that he says there are rules for policemen. And then Bruce Willis is like, yeah, that's what my boss keeps telling me. And then he doesn't shoot him. Dude, he's Dirty Harry. But like he doesn't shoot him. Dirty Harry would have shot him. He totally would have. He just like attacks him with his hands and then has a really bad fight. Like he could have easily died. He really should have shot that guy. And he's fine shooting all the other guys.

Except for the one who's like, no, no, don't shoot me. And then he doesn't shoot him. And then the guy's like, next time you get the chance to kill somebody, make sure you do it. So, yeah, he kills Tony. A little bit after that, Gruber is like giving a speech to the hostages. And the speech, to sum it up, is basically he wants them to decide now. What does he want them to do? I think he's just intimidating. He's trying to sound clever. He won't be joining us for the rest of his life. Well, yes. No, my guess is that he's just trying to intimidate them into being afraid and servial, like subservient to him, right? It's at that point that Tony's body shows up in the elevator dressed as Santa with a bloody message on his shirt. And this was when I specifically had the thought that this is like a slasher movie, like what you said. Because like, oh my gosh, John McClane, you are bloodthirsty.

I wonder your wife wants to kill you. I've never been in a situation like this, but if I had to like fight somebody just to save my own life and that person ended up dead, I don't think I would even consider dressing the body up as Santa and writing in blood on his shirt and sending him to his friends. Like, oh my gosh, you sadistic maniac. Well, this gives credence to the theory that Holly may be protecting herself because she's afraid of John might off her first. And also, I'm just wondering, like, why he did this? Like, this doesn't help him in any way. Like, all he's doing is, like, announcing his presence and announcing that he's armed. He just wants Hans Gruber, you know, he just wants to shake him up. Well, OK, so the reason he did it is because he's on the elevator and he wanted them to have a conversation and learn their names so he can psych them out later. That's true. That's true.

All I can say is, yeah, they would have noticed that Tony didn't come back, but they wouldn't have known why. Right. So he could have laid low for longer and made them more confused. And like, what good does it do when he psychs them out by knowing their names? Like, he probably would have been better off laying low. I agree. Like, for me, the only thing that this could end in is them knowing he's here and knowing they can talk to him would logically end with them killing people to get him to come out. Yes. And I'm like, so maybe just lay low longer, dude. You're putting the hostages in jeopardy. This says something about John, right? Like, he hates to be the one who's not in charge. So he needs to take some power back for himself, right? This is why he hates that his wife has a better job than him, right? Because now she's the one in charge. Okay, back to that. Yeah, no, I mean, he clearly does have some sort of animosity towards his wife.

I mean, she says to him, I know exactly what type of wife you imagine me to be or whatever. But maybe that's just her being a little extra hurt that he didn't support her, right? Like, it could be that he already had his career when she started hers, and maybe he feels like he didn't get supported, right? I think it's a little more complicated relationship problem than just, like, he's evil. Right, right. No, no, no. I'm not saying he's evil. She clearly is considering getting him out of her life, whether it's permanently or not. I don't know. There's two random, just really random shots that I wanted to discuss real quick. And one of them is before Tony dies, John McLean gets up to the floor where it's under construction and he's wondering what he's going to do. And he looks across at a high-rise apartment and there's just a random shot of like a woman walking around in her robe. Yeah, it's pretty weird.

Why is that there? No payoff there. Well, like it should be something that implies what happens next, which is him setting off the fire alarm, right? Or something? Right. i don't know i'm just very confused about that but there's another similar shot where he kind of does a double take at a woman uh well first of all there's it happens at the christmas party where there's like a woman who bumps into him that kind of glances back at him flirtatiously and then there's a third one where he's in like the elevator maintenance hallway and he walks by that like porn poster and does kind of like a double take at it like huh like it's just right they have several random times where he does a double take at like a random woman dude there's one more that you forgot when he's disembarking the plane and he has to squeeze past the flight attendant yeah they do this several times he looks back at her specifically and that

scene was actually longer originally they cut it um originally she stopped him and said something about shouldn't you have a ticket for your passenger and she points at the bear and then he says oh it's all right she's underage and then the flight attendant says i'm not and then they walk away from each other no wonder they cut that the whole thing is creepy that's like the character he played in unbreakable you know that was i was getting some real unbreakable vibes by that i couldn't wait for him to take off his wedding ring and get rejected oh unbreakable so good we got to do an unbreakable episode i mean we got to do a whole universe episode on that i this is a completely almost different theory it's so you know maybe just throw it away but perhaps uh john mclean has had an affair in the past i mean when he's talking to al he's like she never heard me say i'm sorry well what did he need to apologize

for i mean like sure they bicker but did he do something really bad i mean he's constantly you know glancing at these women all over the place are they trying to perhaps imply something about his character and i kind of think that they are maybe he didn't have an affair but they are implying that he had an affair or something. But also it might just be like when he gets there and they're alone in the bathroom and they chat and they start to like kind of come together again, like they're talking and it's going well. And then he kind of ruins it by like chewing her out for having a different last name. It could also just be that, like that he lashes out at her sometimes for things that don't really matter when really he should just say, I'm sorry. And I did agree. It could just be that. But I agree. It could also be that he's cheating. Okay, so the next thing I wanted to talk about is both Holly and Ellis' meetings with Hans Gruber.

At one point, Holly is talking to Ellis. I want to go through this whole conversation because my theory here is that Ellis and Holly are both moles and are working together. Holly seeks Ellis out and she turns to him and says, something's wrong. And at this point, I'm like, oh, you think? What gave you that idea, Holly? The dead body dressed as Santa in the elevator? Clearly something's wrong. Wow, she's just a master of observation. This party isn't, you know, as fun as it was a few minutes ago. Right. So Ellis turns to her and he says, what, cops? And then she says, John. And Ellis says, John, he's going to F this whole thing up. What's he think he's doing? And then Holly says, his job. Harry Ellis is like, that's BS. His job's 3,000 miles away. Without him, we'll still have a chance. We might be able to get out of here. And then Holly says, tell that to Takagi. And to me, it sounds like you could take it as like she's saying something's wrong with this situation.

But it sounds even more like because clearly something's wrong with this situation. She's saying something's wrong with our con. Like she specifically went over to Ellis to tell him something's wrong. And then. Yeah, it's not the cops. John's screwing everything up. Exactly. And his responses aren't what you'd think. like if i was at this party i would be like yeah something's wrong we've been taken hostage right but no he immediately is just like kind of low talking to her and being like what is it is it the cops right like it doesn't sound like he's excited that the cops are there it's like cops and she's like no it's john and she's not excited about what john's doing either everything about this conversation sounds like they are scheming and john is messing up their schemes right and And it's at this point that Ellis starts to have the idea that he needs to go and talk to Gruber, right?

Right. Yeah. And that's what I want to talk about. Now, I think it is possible that Holly and Ellis are working together in some capacity in whatever she's trying to do. I don't think that Ellis has any contact with the terrorists. And I think the reason for that, the reason I come to that conclusion, is when Ellis goes in to talk to the terrorists, Hans kind of clearly doesn't exactly like him. And also ends up shooting him and just kind of like knows that he's totally BSing him, right? Now, when Holly goes in there, though, Hans does everything that she says, right? And I think he kind of gives her a look when she comes in, like, what are you doing? Like, you're kind of blowing your cover here. And I think the reason for that is because he needs someone who is with the hostages, who can take control of them and can also know what is going on with them and tell him what those hostages need to stay calm,

which is exactly what she's doing when she comes in, right? Like, she comes in and tells him exactly what the hostages need at that point in order to keep them calm, which is what Hans wants. I think the reason they kind of keep up this facade of not knowing each other is because Hans is not taking all of his men with him, right? Not everyone is in on the whole plan. And so I think they kind of need to keep that up in case you know any of his other men are in the room who aren't coming with him so she walks in and says i have a request and then he looks up and says what idiot put you in charge and then she says you did when you murdered my boss now everybody's looking to me personally i'd passed on the job i don't enjoy being this close to you right this sounds like two people who know each other yeah right like and it sounds like when he says what idiot put you in charge it sounds like

he's almost maligning her for taking charge like saying you idiot you shouldn't be in charge of these hostages because you're too close to this situation right and then she's like well you put me in a situation where i have to be in charge so there right right and she may not have known that they were going to kill takagi right because she thought he had the password yes so and and then at that point he relents and says go on and she says all right we'll need a couch for the pregnant woman we need to go to the bathroom and he keeps like you said just going along with it he's like okay i'll bring out a sofa is that good enough and then she's like yeah that's good enough now take us to the bathroom and he's like yes it will be done anything else and we know based on her conversation with ellis that because of john things aren't going according to plan so it makes sense that she needs to come in and talk to him and be like hey we need these things i understand

why they may talk to each other like they know each other why do you think he yields to her do you think she's in charge of the entire operation i think it is possible that she is in charge of the whole operation or that she kind of maybe thought it up and brought him in and he kind of thinks he's in charge. I feel like they both sort of think they're in charge, but ultimately I kind of think that she thought up the whole thing. So you think she was the mastermind? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I think that they worked together on the thing and that Hans is definitely the one in charge of his crew, but I kind of think that she came to him with the idea. We know that she is a master negotiator from having closed this huge business deal that they're celebrating. So she would be able to negotiate something with this exceptional thief. We could talk about the scene where Bruce Willis and Alan Rickman meet and he does the English accent, I guess.

If we're going to talk about that, though, I just want to note that when Bruce Willis killed Heinrich, he got the detonators. So Heinrich was the one in charge of setting up all of the explosives. At the point in the movie where Bruce Willis and Alan Rickman finally meet, or John McClane and Hans Gruber, it's a little bit odd at this point Hans has lost a lot of his men and he orders Carl to go hunt down John which of course Carl is happy to do because John killed his brother yes then all of a sudden Hans Gruber is on his own doing grunt work climbing up where Heinrich and Heinrich's crew were setting up all the bombs to check the wiring on the bombs I want to emphasize the fact that when John got the detonators this was very very important to Hans Gruber like he's visibly shaken and says but but he had the detonators right when when they're like he got Henrik every time he talks to anyone

in his crew from that point on he keeps saying we need to get those detonators we must have those detonators and then he's just wandering around on the roof alone upstairs why is he up there what's he doing couldn't he had someone else do this yeah to me this seems like kind of a total a plot hole like why would Hans be doing that except to get him in a scene with John McClane right unless we take into account that he wasn't bringing everyone with him and the detonator and the bombs were a key part of his plan that not everyone knew about so he didn't have anyone left in his upper circle because a lot of them have been killed to go check on this Heinrich is dead right Tony is dead Theo is busy and Carl is busy and Carl's also busy yes so no I agree that's the only in my opinion legitimate reason yeah and he couldn't clue in anyone else because the rest of those people he's either going to abandon or possibly have them killed in the explosion

alan rickman can do a pretty good american accent i think you can kind of hear his his english accent it sounds a little weird yeah he sounds a little odd so then in this scene he gives his name as clay bill clay i mean this is a tenuous connection but perhaps the reason his name is bill clay is because holly has molded him like clay wow you've sold me your theory is confirmed so the next thing i wanted to talk about was the tv news reporter oh that's another thing the actor william atherton is just amazing at playing that character he is i don't know if he ever played any other character but he's really good at that character so they have some stuff with yeah the reporter and then the tv but at one point there is an expert on the tv talking about helsinki syndrome this is like an educated expert and he kind of comes off looking like a doofus and an idiot and then we cut to john who's like this really down-to-earth guy who saves the day you

know and what he's saying doesn't happen in the movie he's like hostage and the terrorists go through a sort of psychological transference and a projected dependency a strange sort of trust and bond develops with that situation where the hostages have embraced their captors and after their release even correspond with them in prison you know like right why is this in this movie except maybe to make fun of educated people or i think it's supposed to be kind of one of those like expectations versus reality kind of things where you expectations everything's pristine and nice and controlled and then reality it's just like a mess and everything sucks and everyone's trying to kill each other. But what two characters in this movie do form a trust and a bond and embrace at the end after their release? Al and John. Holly and John was what I was going for. I thought you were going for Al and John

because they specifically hug at the end of this movie. It's Al and John. It's the first thing they do when they see each other. It's true. And they've never seen each other. I don't know how they recognize each other. You sounded pretty fat on the phone. You must be. Oh, my God. Oh, jeez.

And you sounded like a total. He did tell him what was, he did tell him the ingredients of a Twinkie. I know. Just from his mind. I clearly was getting those for himself. No, I was going. So you're saying that Al was holding, no, John was holding Al hostage. No, this isn't about Al at all. Al should be removed from the movie, period. the only two people who really embrace other than al and john is john and holly when they come out and well which one of them was the hostage and which one was the captor well i mean like holly was working with the the captors so technically john was a hostage yeah exactly and so why why are they having this explanation of helsinki syndrome in the movie if it never happens except that it actually does. That's what brings these two together is Helsinki Syndrome. I mean, I think this is pretty decent evidence because there's really no reason to have that guy explain

this entire psychological phenomenon unless, like you said, they're trying to show something under the surface. It's around this point, Carl, he comes back into the hostage area and freaking out, breaking some stuff. And the pregnant lady says, that man looks really pissed. And yeah, Holly goes, he's still alive. And the pregnant lady says, what? And she says, only John can drive somebody that crazy. Yeah, one interesting thing about this thing, though, is that she's not just like overjoyed, like, oh, John's still alive. She's kind of in disbelief. She's like, huh, John's still alive. Well, I didn't expect that. But also, she doesn't sound outright hostile. She's not like, he's still alive. She is also giving a very backhanded compliment, though. Only John can drive someone that crazy. Like, she's not outright saying anything good about him. No, it's true. So around here, we see a message on Theo's computer that says,

electromagnetic seal engaged, no local access. And kudos to the writer, D'Souza and John McTiernan. Like, this is one of the moments that makes you feel the most for the bad guys. First of all, they're clever in how the whole crux of their plan to get the FBI there and pretending to be terrorists was just to turn off the power, right? And then, like, that moment when it plays the ode to joy, like, the vault is opening. Like, that does definitely add some joy to the movie, like John McTiernan wanted. No, you feel good for them. They got what they wanted. Like, it's the protagonist getting his goal, right? But there's an important moment here where he says, they touch down, will blow the roof, they'll spend a month sifting through the rubble before they find out what went wrong. I'll be sitting on a beach earning 20%. Yeah, 20%. Now, this 20% could possibly be referring to several different things, but I think it's referring to he is getting one-fifth of 100% of the cut.

So, he was planning on taking five people with him, including himself. Except that three of them are dead. I wanted to kind of go through and say what my theory is on who he was planning on taking with him and how that may have changed over the course of this movie. He was bringing Carl, Tony, Theo. That's three. He's got to bring those three no matter what. Then who were the other two he was bringing? I would assume Heinrich, because Heinrich seemed the only one other than him who was in charge. And he knew about the plan to detonate the roof, which I posit that many of his crew did not know about that. And so I think Heinrich had to come with him. But then who's the fifth person? I have no idea, except maybe it was Holly, right? she knew about the plan to blow the roof, you know, supposedly in my version. And no one else seems to be particularly high-ranking. Also, a lot of them seem to be people he just

maybe picked up in the United States, right? I don't think he was going to take Eddie with him originally. I don't think he was going to take Uli. I don't think he was going to take either Franco or Marco. And then there are a couple other Germans, which you'd think maybe he was a little closer with them, but I don't know. Like Fritz and James. And I thought that maybe as people died, He might have been thinking about taking others with him. By the time he says 20%, Heinrich and Tony are dead. Maybe he was planning on taking Fritz. I don't know. Or it could be that he was planning on taking more than five people, right? Like, so maybe originally he was getting less than 20. They were going to cut it. Maybe Fritz was coming along. But after Tony died, now it's gone down a little. I don't know. Toward the end, he thought at that point in the movie, he thought he was taking five people with him.

And I believe that they were Carl, Theo, and one of them was Holly. The fifth person is Theo's assistant. Even though he doesn't seem very important, he does seem to be privy to a lot of the higher level stuff in their plan. I think his name is Christoph. See, now, the way I understood it, because he says, I'll be sitting on a beach earning 20%, not I have already gotten it. There are other ways to interpret that. I think like a really good return on like anything where you're investing in the stock market, a really good, you know, average return would be 20% if you're investing in like a super good fund. I took it to mean we're going to invest these millions of dollars and just retire and live off of the earnings. But no, you're right. Earning 20% kind of sounds like it means something completely different than what I'm positing. We're getting to the part of the movie where I think your theory kind of falls apart, and we'll see how you defend it.

So it's at this point where the reporters do an interview with the kids, and Gruber sees it, Holly sees it, everyone sees it, and Gruber flips the photo up, sees John and Holly in the photo, turns to Holly and says, Mrs. McLean, how nice to make your acquaintance. It seems like this is the first time he has connected that she is related to John McClane. Right. I guess that doesn't mean that she wasn't working with him. Maybe he thinks she's betraying him? This happens right after John finds the bombs himself. And he's trying to tell the police about the bombs. And Al, I think Al is on the line or whatever, and he says something about a double cross and then it cuts off, right? And then shortly after, the police say, I heard something about a double cross. It cuts to this scene where Hans comes in and is like, so happy to make your acquaintance. And I kind of think thematically, we're talking about double crosses here.

So I think that in a way, Hans Gruber does think that Holly McLean is double crossing him. I don't think Hans knew that her plan was to get rid of her husband. She just wanted him there on the roof to get exploded, along with also getting a cut of the job that they're doing. And so now he realizes, wait a minute, she's related to this guy who's sabotaging my entire plan, right? Maybe she's sabotaging my entire plan. He thinks she's trying to kill him and take all the money. And then what he does is he double crosses her. So there's tons of double crosses going on thematically at this point in the movie. Hans Gruber is dragging Holly around through the hall. And she says, as he loads all the money up into like briefcases, she says, after all your posturing, all your little speeches, you're nothing but a common thief. And he says, I am an exceptional thief, Mrs. McLean. And since I'm moving up to kidnapping, you'd better be polite.

So she didn't know that he was a thief? No, no, no. She knew he was a thief. She's insulting him because now he's a common thief. He's not following her plan anymore. He's just grabbing all the stuff and running, right? So she's saying you don't have honor among thieves. Well, yeah, she's telling him that he's abandoning the plan. He's just, he's a hack now. He's not doing what they originally planned. He's betrayed her. He's taking her hostage now for real. You know, like, he's like, now I'm moving up to kidnapping. Well, I mean, that's kind of what he was doing already, you know, unless he didn't consider her to be a hostage up until that point. So if he'd stuck with her, he could have been something really great. But now he's just a common thief because he's double crossing her. But what does she gain by insulting the man who probably wants to kill her? Well, but what does she gain in either case?

if she's a hostage or if she was working with him. It's stupid for her to be insulting him like that. The only reason for her to insult him is if she was working with him and she feels like she's on the same power level still. She's not used to being a hostage. It makes no sense if she was a hostage the whole time. I can buy it. I can go along with it. So I just want to mention what I thought was a pretty funny scene where John gets to the roof. All the hostages are there. He kills the guy who's keeping them there. I think it was Uli. Yeah, it's Uli. And that makes me think Uli was probably going to get exploded because he was just up on the roof of them. Right, like Uli does herd them up there and then kind of runs down, but I don't know if he was going to get away before it exploded. He didn't run very far down. Yeah, or if he was even running because of, maybe he was just checking and see if there were any stragglers.

I don't know. And then there was like a couple other guys just below the stairs just kind of waiting around and they're like, I think something's wrong. And that explosion does a number on that building. Like John only survives because he falls like 10 floors on a hose. No, I truly believe that everyone up on, like, the top maybe three floors of that building would have died. But what I thought was funny is John gets up there. He tells all the hostages, he says, this place is wired to explode. Get out of here. And then he sees the helicopter coming. He knows it's an FBI helicopter. And he decides the best course of action is to just wave a machine gun in the air and just fire it off like a crazed idiot. And then he gets mad at them when they do what you, And then he gets mad when they shoot at him. Yeah, what you would logically do to a terrorist is just firing bullets at, like, basically at the hostages.

Yeah, and at the helicopter, he's firing them in the air, right? It's like, dude, you are purposefully making yourself look like an aggressor, and now you're mad at the FBI for trying to kill you? I do have a question, because he scares them off the roof by shooting bullets, right? And he has to work hard to do that, and that's a big explosion. Do we ever see any of them again? I didn't. Because I'm not sure if that worked and any of them survived. No, I don't know if they died. Like, do we see Holly's assistant again? No, we didn't see any of them. We only see Holly and John exiting the building. Yeah, that's what I thought. I kind of think they all still died. I kind of think they might have, yeah. After the explosion, we do hear Holly yelling at Hans off camera. And she says, what are you going to do? Sit here while the building falls apart around your ears? Now, I don't think this is the way a hostage talks to their captor, right?

it seems like she still thinks that she's in charge she's like what are you doing like we there was a plan are you just gonna sit here while the building falls apart like they were probably supposed to already be out before the explosion happened right yeah it sounds like she's saying why'd you explode everything already while we're in the building but that would be a good question whether she's working with him or not because honestly it was kind of a dangerous thing to do hans well i know they're still unloading stuff from the safe but she could also be like like why didn't we go downstairs with theo like eddie and i think christoph are still up there and could unload stuff at least eddie was still up there and could unload stuff like they could have gone down with theo and been ready to escape so hans and john have a showdown right it's like a cowboy showdown almost and they talk about cowboys and the interesting thing about

this scene that i noticed was after john shoots gruber gruber falls out the window manages to grab onto holly's rolex and they struggle to unlatch it and then hans he like he looks like he thinks he's got this situation under control for a second like he's like oh yeah i got this and he starts like raise his gun what's he gonna do he's full of bullet holes and also if he kills them he dies and then he's very surprised when he's suddenly falling after the wristwatch he was holding on to comes on time i mean he'd just been shot you know he's yeah he probably wasn't thinking straight and the scene was slowed down so maybe if it was in real time it wouldn't look so silly so the rolex was symbolic of her achievements within the company and gruber held on to it and pulled it off of her and so like gruber kind of pulled down all of her achievements in the company and left her with nothing kind of right i mean yeah no matter how

you look at it there are many interpretations no matter how you look at it the watch thing is obviously symbolic but see i would say that this watch it's an actual connection between her and hans gruber she's making the choice now she is severing her ties with this life of crime and she's deciding to go back to john because that's kind of the only choice she has when john first appears she says jesus so clearly she sees him as some sort of you know savior at this point so like clearly what they meant so like she has decided at this point hans betrayed her the job has gone awry there's nothing she can do but she has an easy way out she just sides with john she lets go of her life of crime hans gruber falls no one knows and she goes back to john and she can live happily ever after and you know maybe she won't make the amount she would from getting those bearer bonds but she'll probably get uh takagi's job maybe dude just to back up your john being the savior theory

at one point in the movie ellis says john ah christ yeah he's saying who john is right yeah he's our savior so at the end everyone knows the scene uh like the guy in die hard he's hanging by his neck and at the end of the movie he comes back here's my question why does carl come after john mcclain okay he could have gotten away right the only way he survived being hung by the neck from a chain is if he had the forethought to pretend to be dead because if he was actually unconscious in that chain he would have just hung to death like he wouldn't suddenly get more oxygen and come to he was strangled so like if he had the forethought to pretend to be dead because he knew he was losing the fight with john literally throw why would he come back i mean like you can say he just wanted revenge so bad but i'm like i think this guy was a little bit smarter than that why would he come out yeah and just like there's just a million cops with guns

out there he knows he's gonna die anyway dude no no but but you know what should have happened though is when john exits the building and sees al and somehow recognizes him and hugs him he then immediately introduces him to his wife he says this is holly my wife at that point al should have said i got something to tell you from john he says he's sorry right like that was john told him that would have justified al's presence i know i was like al you had one job sorry by the way like especially if they'd had him repeat the whole like word for word monologue like there's so many things he's done and things he should have said all right so your theories i think are interesting i think there's not too much to back them up and i think it's fun to think about but in the end i think it's just that fun to think about right like i give it like maybe a half a thumb up maybe a thumb up i'll give it one thumb up because i do

i do think there's some evidence that holly is like a cutthroat ladder climbing like you know she, she might do what it takes to, to get power and money, right? Like, yeah. Uh, I mean, no matter what, there was a mole in the company, right? Yeah. No, I think that that's true. And it was a high level mole. So it was someone. You know what? Yeah. I'll, I'll, I'll give you that. I will say that there is good evidence that Holly had possibly fed information to these guys, but it's a little hard to believe because I think there's too many instances where they don't seem to know each other. the cool theory though and i gotta say um i really like die hard like as much as it might seem like we're picking it apart and maligning it dude die hard's such a good movie like it in my opinion it's like a masterpiece of an action movie like it's like the perfect action movie i am one of the best christmas movies it is it's a great christmas movie and it's

definitely a christmas movie i don't care what people say this is a christmas movie happy holidays everyone yeah happy christmas everyone hey and if you want to watch die hard this Christmas, please check out the description. Follow the link. Get Die Hard from Amazon. Rent it. Buy it. Whatever. Watch it and see if you think our theories are worth anything. Yeah. Thanks so much for listening. Music for this episode was provided by Christine. And we will see you next time. And remember, the popcorn isn't real.