The old man was a murderer

I wanted to start off this episode talking about Harry Potter. That's why we're here, right? Yeah, that's what we usually invite you here to talk about. I did want to say that after we had all of our Harry Potter episodes, I had a dream that Gilderoy Lockhart was actually Harry Potter from the future who had time-traveled to the past and was trying not to mess up the time stream. And I was like, oh, if only I'd had that before, it would have made such a great theory. Oh my gosh, I love this movie. I think I could have proved it. Why did he come back to the past at all if his only goal is to not mess with the past? No, it was accidental. He doesn't want to be in the past. Yeah, he's stuck in the past. And so he has to make a new identity for himself and becomes Gilderoy Lockhart. And he can't use any of his Harry Potter life stuff. So he has to steal life information from other witches and wizards.

And make a profit while doing it. Well, yeah, come on. Harry's always been rich. He doesn't know how to live if he's not rich and a celebrity. He didn't want to be a teacher at Hogwarts. But his new identity gained so much fame that he was offered the job by Dumbledore. And he thought not taking the job would cause more trouble than taking the job. So this is a good theory because that's why he was telling Harry, fame's an ickle friend, Harry. He was giving Harry good advice right there. He's probably the best friend Harry's ever had. He was literally just telling Harry, don't be crazy because people won't like you. That's it. That's all he was telling him. Did not sink in, because right after Harry's like, it's going to kill. It's going to kill.

Did you hear that? And if Gilderoy had lived through Harry's life, he knew Harry was about to say that. And he's like, don't. Gilderoy Lockhart. It's too bad they obliviated him. He'll never know he was Harry. Yeah, he's a cool guy. What an inauspicious end to the world's greatest horror. Hello, and welcome to the Popcorn Isn't Real. I'm Leigh Verick. I'm here with my co-host, Torvald, and we're here with often recurring guest, Brita. That's me. I'm Brita. No, liar. My name is Brita. I'd like to give a special welcome to all of our new listeners. We have a lot of new listeners these days, so I want to say thanks for listening. You guys are great, and thanks for coming back, despite our best efforts to drive you away. Yeah, what did you get new listeners from? Hubie Halloween, of course. Oblivion theory? Hubie Halloween's just pulling people in. They love it. They can't get enough of the Sandlerverse.

Yeah, I heard you guys tortured yourselves by doing that. That's great. All right, Brita, why are you here today? What are we talking about? So we're here for our yearly tradition of recording an episode in November about a Disney movie. So this time we've chosen Atlantis. Atlantis, the Lost Empire. The main theory that comes to mind when you guys talk about Atlantis is the widely believed rumor that Atlantis was in fact plagiarized from a Japanese animation called Nadia's Secret of Blue Water. So I went ahead and watched Nadia's Secret of Blue Water and I watched Atlantis and I'm going to give my two cents on that. But Brita, were there any other theories that we'd like to go over today? Yeah, I actually asked to join you for this episode based on a theory that I had just watching the movie that I feel like is basically canon, which is that Preston Whitmore, the person who funds this expedition for Milo, comes off as just kind of a jolly eccentric older man who is just interested in, you know, helping out the grandson of his old friend, fulfilling a promise, and maybe getting some information.

He says he just needs one shred of proof. That'll be enough for me. He doesn't want anything out of this. And my theory is that, in fact, he is a capitalist billionaire and he is looking to capitalize on this expedition as well, that he planned Rourke's betrayal. He got this crew on purpose in order to do what Rourke is doing. And perhaps he even betrayed Thaddeus in the past as well. Yeah. Okay. So you're saying he sent them down there to raid and pillage and plunder Atlantis. Exactly. Like Rourke and Helga, he didn't know there were people alive there. He didn't necessarily think you were going to have to just murder an entire living civilization. Well, but then why did he send them down with so many guns? I think that he knew that there was a civilization down there and I think he planned to murder them. Maybe he planned to murder them. But regardless, his goal is similar to other like 1920s archaeologists like Heinrich Schleiman, who discovered the city of Troy.

They just want to find these treasures and then like sell them to museums and get rich and get famous. That's his goal. And then I also read somewhere that possibly his wealth was based on technologies. And if that's true, he may have also wanted to use some of the Atlantean technologies, use the crystal and promote his business. I kind of feel like he doesn't need it. He's got some crazy steampunk tech. Leif, did you have any other theories about Atlantis or was that it? I'm going to argue in favor of what Valkyrie proposed. I believe that Whitmore murdered Thaddeus Thatch and got him out of the way. So you think Whitmore is far more sinister than Brita does. Brita thinks he's just like an opportunist. He's taking advantage of this opportunity to plunder a dead civilization. You think that he's a murderer, that he goes around killing anyone who gets in his way. Whitmore is bad news. Preston B. Whitmore, you want to stay away from that guy.

All right. All right. Last theory we're not going to even get into. I believe Helga Sinclair might be Santa Claus. Oh, what? That's amazing. The popcorn isn't real theory. Now this I can get into. Oh, boy. I mean, she did come down a chimney. Sorry, did I just blow your entire evidence? All my evidence, Torvald. All of it's gone. Before we get started, what are your guys' thoughts on Atlantis? Is it a good movie? Is it a memorable movie in the Disney library? I think it's a really good movie. Obviously, it came out when I was a child, so it's kind of an integral part of my childhood that I grew up watching this movie. I think it has some really good animation and beautiful character and location designs. All that being said, I would say the story I don't think is anything special and is a bit white savior complex-y for my taste. I felt exactly the same re-watching it. The story is kind of flat and kind of like weird white colonist stuff, right?

Yeah, this movie starts with Milo practicing his pitch that he's going to say to the department heads or whatever of this museum so he can get funding to go to iceland he presents some runes that he says are badly translated so it says the coast of ireland i don't know where they got the letter r from because the letter c in iceland is the same as the first rune in coast and they got it right on coast but it also doesn't make sense because if it's runic it would have been a k which means it wouldn't make the s sound in iceland right and i don't like they wouldn't have spelled coast coast it wouldn't have been spelled in english just with runes yeah no his runes don't make any sense the nordic words for coast are similar right they're like kust or kist coast in in like most nordic languages is like kist the spelling might have been similar in runic yeah maybe unless it's strand which wouldn't have been anything

like Iceland but yeah then he gets the map all over his shirt and he turns around to like try to be part of the map is somehow mirrored on his shirt when he turns around he's got like magic map shirt magic it's weird he's a cartographer I want that shirt wow you're right so Milo does not get the funding he wants but he comes home and there's this santa claus yes there's this jolly old man he's got a bag of gifts also this is all happening on december 24th Down the chimney.

So Helga Sinclair is sitting in his house. She actually looks like a femme fatale, which is interesting because that look would not come about until like the 1940s or 1950s. No, she started the look. Yeah, they're basing it on her. And this happens in 1914. Yep. He asks how she got in. She says, I came down the chimney. Ho, ho, ho. Just the very first evidence of... You just blew my mind. The very first evidence of a whole two pieces of evidence that proved that she could be Santa Claus. That's good evidence. Part of our podcast is that we generally take everything everyone says as 100% literal and true as well. Not just literal, but also true. Let's look at the type of person Helga is. So first of all, we know that she can kind of switch roles. She can kind of change on a dime. She's like this kind of sexy femme fatale at the beginning, dressed in a black dress. Later on, she's just this no-nonsense total soldier, right?

She doesn't really act like that, you know, random femme fatale who's in your house. Who's like, oh, oh, oh. You know, she's like barking orders and stuff. Everything you're describing now is very Santa Claus. Yeah, I know Santa for his ability to be either a femme fatale or a lieutenant. Not even one of these necessarily proves that she is like Santa in any way, but it proves that she could be and also that she is no nonsense she doesn't lie if she says i came down the chimney ho ho ho it is true okay so i just realized what your second piece of evidence is gonna be all right well i hope i hope it is what you think it is i bet it is this appearance of helga sinclair is also the first piece of evidence for preston whitmore as a villain that he chooses for our very first introduction to him to his enterprise his idea to have this yeah not only to break the law yeah but just this most like

villainous seeming intro for this femme fatale right that she has broken into milo's house his cat's missing his lights aren't working he tries to turn them on they don't work And there is she cut the power. She cut the power to his house. She thought he had a security system. So she cut the power. He wouldn't have in 1914. His security system was his cat, which she took out. Which she took because it was a security system. And then finally, you've got the lightning flashing behind her. So this is not only Whitmore, but also the people who made the movie. Yeah, making her intentionally sinister because she's the introduction, the first introduction we have to the movie's villain. I just have to point out that she is a villain of the movie whether or not Whitmore is she is so when she then leads Milo to Whitmore she gives him this long list of strict things he needs to do they says Mr. Whitmore does not like to be kept waiting you will dress him as Mr. Whitmore

or sir you will stand unless you ask to be seated keep your sentences short and to the point are we clear and then she says he doesn't buy often and then sends him in to meet Mr. Whitmore and all these things seem really scary and then he meets Mr. Whitmer and it's like oh it was all a misunderstanding he's this quirky old man who likes to do yoga yeah and be crazy but in reality if you watch the scene Milo actually follows all those instructions he always addresses him as sir he generally speaks pretty short and to the point and then he doesn't I don't think sit down at all definitely doesn't get bit often he doesn't get bit often either and so I think that she was being entirely genuine when she was giving this list of things that Whitmore demands. And if he had come in and been like, yo, Preston, Whitmore would have just like killed him a new one. Just pulled out a gun and shot him. He's like, hey, let me sit down.

I just got to tell you my life story. That's really long sentences. Here's my first evidence for Whitmore may have murdered Thaddeus Thatch, the grandfather of Milo Thatch. Now, this is just sort of to establish the relationship they had. Whitmore says, I met old Thaddeus back in Georgetown, class of 66. Tried to drag me along on some of his dang fool expeditions. Crazy as a fruit bat he was. He hates his dad. Well, he has nothing good to say about Thaddeus Thatch. Like, he says a few things like, I'm going with a clear conscience, you know, etc. But like, he never says a single nice thing about Thaddeus Thatch. Yeah, it's like he holds a grudge against him. And then Milo's like, funny, he never mentioned you. Whitmore says, oh, he wouldn't. He knew I much liked my privacy. I keep a low profile as a criminal would. Ah, yeah. Well, and I just have to point out why on earth is Milo so certain that this is the real Shepard's Journal that Whitmore gives him?

Because he would have known if it was a fake. His grandfather would have known if it was a fake. I know this is true because my grandfather believed in it. he doesn't know that whitmore even knew his grandfather like this is just some strange old man showing him pictures and giving him a book it probably is fake he's probably just pretending that he knows your grandpa he's like oh i believe everything you say so when milo says i'll do it no matter what whitmore gets such an evil look on his face and sinisterly says congratulations milo and that's not me reading into it like we sometimes do and make them sound more sinister like he actually sounds sinister when he says that that is exactly what i wanted to hear i did also want to mention here this was our sister valkyrie's one point of evidence that whitmore killed fattiest thatch was that she noticed that the picture of the two of them he's like covered in blood with a knife in his back he's just covered in blood and like it says

it has a speech bubble next to preston that says i murdered you and then his grandpa has a speech trouble. It's like, why did you kill me? Yeah, it's pretty good evidence. How did I never notice that? No, what she actually noticed was that there's a picture of the two of them hanging over the mantle and Thaddeus looks the same as he did in Milo's picture of Thaddeus and Mr. Whitmore looks the same as he does right now. It was like this year. She seemed to think that indicated he had died recently and also that Whitmore was, you know, around recently in his life, despite the fact that Milo, as we mentioned, doesn't know about him because Mr. Whitmore likes his privacy people act like thaddeus thatch died a while ago but he most certainly did not and also whitmore has tons of artifacts in his house from tribal cultures all over the world and artifacts he pilfers natives that's what he does he's a tomb raider definitely and they're

establishing this like on purpose i think that's the intent of this scene yes it is at the time a normal thing for wealthy men to do was to have a cabinet of curiosity which is just kind of like your in-home museum that has all kinds of stuff from native peoples and from ancient peoples and things like that. Wait, people don't do that anymore? I have to clean out my cabinet of curiosity. Oh no. Oh man, get rid of that. Uh-oh. It shows that he has something of a disregard for the people or the places that he's getting things from. What really supports your theory the most is that Whitmore not only funded this entire expedition, he wasn't just the money bags behind it he organized it he he was he was the planner and he shows milo like his little miniature models of everything that he has included in the expedition he made and it's all the war machines yeah the balloon there's the tanks there's you know i'm sure there's little figures with guns

in those tanks as well so that was going to be my next piece of evidence is that even though he ropes milo into this very clearly he was ready to do this expedition like he had models of everything He surely had all the stuff getting created or already created, and he had a crew ready. And then he decides to kidnap Milo and ask him to come along. It feels very much like he was planning this expedition without Milo, right? He didn't want to get involved with Milo or Thaddeus anymore, who perhaps he killed because Thaddeus didn't want to do things this way. And then he realized we can't do this without someone to read this journal. And so he decided to kind of strong arm Milo into it by not really giving him a choice. Right. Like when he tells him. No, he's not giving him a choice. I'm starting to see this entire situation in a completely different light. This whole thing was a huge threat to like Milo's life.

Like, that's the reason that he kidnapped him and stole his cat and like took him into an ominous room. He's saying, if you don't do this, you're dead meat. He's like, I'm nice when you do what I want. He's trying to come off friendly. But if Milo had tried to refuse, then yes, he would have been like, no, we're not letting you go. Well, he's already shown that he has the capabilities to make Milo's life, you know, not good. He's like, I resigned for you. Quit Milo's job for him. Yeah. What he's really saying is, I've got my eyes on you. Like, I'm surveilling you. Yeah, absolutely. See, that's what I thought was the more sinister part of that is that he knew exactly what Milo had been up to that day, right? Milo even says, how did you know? And then never mind. He just has this complete control of the situation. He's very limited in what he tells Milo, right? Like all he tells them is we got the journal. Here it is. He doesn't tell them anything else about like how they got the journal, about what happened on that trip, about why they haven't done this expedition sooner.

So this is good evidence for him murdering Thaddeus Thatch, as you were saying. You know, he's clearly already been practicing. He has two coelacanths in an aquarium, so he's been going down, practicing going deep sea. And also worth noting, this is before coelacanths had been registered as a species. No one knew about them. Wouldn't he have to keep them in like an incredibly pressurized tank or they would become like blobfish and explode? Yeah. So yeah, clearly he had been practicing with Thaddeus. At some point recently, Thaddeus had a change of heart. He said, your grandfather gave this to me years ago, referring to the journal, which could mean two years ago. It's just plural years, right? So they've been practicing. He killed Thaddeus recently, probably two years ago about. And then he orchestrated this whole thing. He knows that Milo didn't get the funding at the museum today because he's probably the

one who called and told them to move up the meeting to 3.30 so that Milo would definitely be willing to accept Mr. Whitmore's funding. I think that's probably true. And although there's no evidence for this, I think it's most likely that the expedition to get the Shepherd's Journal was about two years ago. And it was either during or immediately following that expedition that they decided Thaddeus was more of a liability than a support. And so they got rid of him so that he wouldn't get in the way of them continuing to pillage and steal whatever they wanted. So Whitmore is talking about Thaddeus Thatch. He says, finally, I got fed up and I made a bet with the old coot. I said, Thatch, if you ever find that so-called journal, I'll not only finance that expedition, but I'll kiss you full on the mouth. So he kissed Thatch full on the mouth, apparently, and hired a photographer to take a picture of it.

Yeah, take a picture of that moment. Because it was very hard to do photographs back in that day. They had to hold that pose after, you know, that disgusted pose. And also keep like spitting because there was. Maybe they drew that in after he had someone Photoshop it by hand. So he acts like he was only going to finance the expedition to look for Atlantis after Thaddeus Thatch found the journal. Yes. But he must have also financed the expedition to get the journal in the first place because his entire crew of mercenaries was on that expedition and they don't work for Thaddeus Thatch. Yes, I agree. And I think that the crew is something we'll need to talk about in detail as well, that when he introduces this crew, he says they're the best of the best, the same crew that brought the journal back, and he splays out their pictures. And both from like what we see right there and from what we find out later, these aren't

who you might expect to be the best of the best. Joshua Sweet is among the most normal of them, right? He is a former military doctor. And then you've got the demolitions expert, Vinny. We never get any information about where he worked or what he's been doing previously, aside from the fact that he worked in a flower shop and then got exploded and found his calling and has been exploding things ever since. Yeah, and went to jail. I mean, that's the next thing we know that happened in his life. Yes. I mean, Whitmore says he busted him out of prison, which is not a legal thing to do. And he's not ashamed of that. He's like, yeah, we busted him out of a Turkish prison. Turkish prison. I do prison breaks. Because he's the best. Just this entire crew, they all seem like kind of shady individuals, not who you'd expect to be the best of the best, but who you might expect to be a crew of hired mercenaries who

would do anything for money. And when Milo talks to them later, that turns out to be true, right? Like he asks them about why they're all here. Money. And that's interesting, too, because if you're funding an expedition to Atlantis, I don't think it would be very hard to get people who are there for reasons other than the money. Right. Like this is something that that Milo feels so strongly about. Right. Like he'd do it for free. He probably is. I don't think he's getting paid. And like, I think you could find other researchers who are like, yeah, I want to find out about Atlantis. Like, I want to be a part of this cool discovery. And as shown later in the movie, he chose people who care about money because it's easier to get them to do horrible things. One little note is that he looks up at the picture of Thaddeus Thatch and he says, I know your grandfather's gone, Milo. God rest his soul.

But Preston Whitmore is a man who keeps his word. You hear that, Thatch? I'm going to the afterlife with a clear conscience by thunder. I believe that the line about going to the afterlife with a clear conscience has to do with the underlying twinge of guilt he feels about murdering his friend Thaddeus Thatch. He's saying, see you in hell. You know, I promised him I would fund the expedition. I didn't promise I wouldn't kill him.

What a man of values. I know, I know. Yeah, yeah. If anything, I'd say the clear conscience comes from involving Milo, that he's like, look, I got your grandson. He's going to be thrilled to do this. He wanted to be like you. Also, I am literally going to murder him. That's the plan. I don't think he intended to murder Milo. Oh, yes, he did. I didn't promise not to kill a lot of people who I haven't killed. After he talks about clearing his conscious, he suddenly gets really sad and just like filled with regret. And he says, he died a broken man, Thaddeus Thatch. This is likely because Whitmore had some thugs break him. Okay. I mean, he says it's because of the people laughing him out of, you know, academia, but sure. Well, that too, but then he had some thugs show off and rough him up. And just break him. Why would he have been laughed out of academia? He found the Shepard's Journal. Yeah.

There's no reason that he would have been laughed out unless someone like paid off everyone to shun this man, to blackball him. And who has enough money and motivation to do that? I don't know, Mr. Whitmore, who wants the Shepard's Journal and needs to get it from Thaddeus Thatch and wants to find a mission to plunder Atlantis? Your grandfather gave this to me years ago and told me to give it to you when you were ready, whatever that means. And I think that that helps to confirm the thought that perhaps he killed Thaddeus like during or immediately following the Iceland expedition. Because if you think about it, like not only has Milo never heard about his grandpa going to Iceland, like perhaps he heard about the theory from his grandpa. And that's why he's pushing it so hard. But he never heard that his grandpa went there. He never heard that his grandpa found the Shepherd's Journal. And he's never heard about any of these other associates who all have, aside from Whitmer, they all actually have pretty nice things to say about Thaddeus.

They act as though they were his friends. And Whitmer says, oh, well, he wouldn't have talked about me. I like my privacy. But he doesn't give any reason that Thaddeus would have never mentioned any of the rest of this to his grandson, who also is obsessed with archaeology and linguistics and Atlantis. Like, it doesn't make any sense that Milo would know nothing about any of this. the photo we see of the entire crew with thaddeus with them again they're all the same age and the only difference is that audrey isn't there her father is there yeah and you know obviously she would have been a couple years younger so that makes sense but like it means that this was happening recently and thaddeus never mentioned it to his grand the son why he was leaving for long periods of time on expeditions and probably because he knew he was working with shady mercenaries so i think if we're done with that scene the next scene is the launch of the ship which i did want

to mention briefly yes um did something sinister happen while the ship was launching so this is the scene where we get introduced to rork who plays kind of the main role as the villain he's the commander of the expedition and a big kind of military man milo makes a comment about how they're going to learn so much and and just like bring these discoveries to the world because of this voyage. And Rourke kind of looks out at the boat and says, yes, this should be enriching for all of us. And it's him, Milo and Whitmore standing there. And it felt very much like kind of a comment that you'd make knowing that Milo wouldn't get it, but someone else would. And I think that someone else is Whitmore. We're getting rich. Yes. Well, look at, but look at Whitmore's face right after he says this should be enriching for all of us. Whitmore looks around kind of shifty-eyed between Rourke and Milo and then bids them farewell.

Yep. So Rourke said he didn't really like the Shepard's Journal. He says, I prefer a good Western, which is foreshadowing that he likes coming in and killing natives. That's kind of his thing. Torvald, tell us about Joshua Sweet. He hates Milo's. Hates the taste, hates the smell, hates all those nasty little bones. This should be able to saw through a Milo in less than 60 seconds. I'm betting I can cut that Milo in half what the thing he just showed you Milo you're not paying attention when Valkyrie and I watched it I made her pause the movie and we watched Torvald's delightful edits over all the right moments the next scene is Milo giving a presentation Helga for some reason has her gun out during Milo's presentation perhaps ready to shoot him we learn that milo brings his cat to the beach yes he does when the leviathan shows up i've always loved how good helga is at translating rourke's

he says tell cookie to melt the butter and break out the bibs i want this lobster served up on a silver platter and helga's like love the torpedo base there's no reason that he didn't just say those orders he didn't need to tell her gibberish and have her translate it and he literally does not want her to tell anything to cookie no even though she's a villain i always loved helga she's a very strong female character that is i think amazingly written i love her in the movie among Atlantis' dedicated fan base, Helga is actually one of the most cult classic beloved characters. People just love her. Yeah, people love her no-nonsense kind of badass. And you could say she's an antagonist. You could also say she's a protagonist because she kills Rourke at the end. She kills Rourke. She saves the day. It's not Milo. That's nothing personal. This might be a good time to first talk about the weapons

because this is the first time we actually see them have weapons. And not just any weapons. They're loaded to the brim with weapons. When they pop out those subs, they're just like spouting missiles off like a freaking sprinkler. Later, the only explanation we ever get for all these weapons is Rourke talking to the king says they help us to remove certain obstacles we may find in our way. What obstacles did they think they were going to run into in an underwater submarine that they could just torpedo out of their way? Especially when Milo had the journal that shows you can just go through this tunnel. You don't need to get anything out of your way. Yeah. Like we were saying, the crew members are purposefully depicted as being crass and uncaring toward each other. Even Audrey, who is like a teenager, she's young, she has no problem murdering her engineering crew. Like they're saying, wait, wait, and she closes the door on them.

She could have waited a second. It's not going to flood the whole ship immediately, which also the whole ship immediately floods right after that. And she gets onto the escape pod. She could have just let them through. She could have just let them on. So it's showing us that even Audrey, who seems, you know, one of the nicer ones, is pretty mean. No, she doesn't seem nice. And also, like, Rourke later on is like, all right, who's not dead? Sound off. Like, he doesn't care. No, not at all. true so the one transport sub that escapes has all of their vehicles as everything which is great so much stuff on it oh holy crap what was the giant sub for because apparently they had everything on this small sub yeah the giant sub wouldn't have even fit through the tunnel the grease trust me like all of their small subs had all of those vehicles like yeah they had way more redundancy inside of redundancy. Whitmore planned for every occasion. He knew that they were going

to face trouble. But yeah, so the one with everything escapes, manages to get through the grease trap and land. And then afterwards we get the one and only scene in the entire movie where they mourn the dead. Now I am assuming that in that shot where they're mourning the dead, that everyone is there. Because who wouldn't be there, right? Because they're paying respect. So five expendable crew survived. They later die when the bridge collapses. And by expendable crew, you mean like faceless men with gas masks? Well, no, no, no, no. The expendable crew do not have masks. They have mustaches. Those are just the random dudes. Yeah. Okay. Along with, I counted at least 13 of Rourke's Squad B, which is his elite squadron that wears gas masks. Those are the gas mask people. I'm not sure why they wear gas masks all the time. They've got to keep their identity secret. They're doing some bad stuff.

Along with Audrey Sweet, Milo Rourke, Mol Vinny, Helga Packard, Cookie. That makes nine more. So there were about 27 survivors. They started with 200. 173 people just died. And Rourke says, we've been up this particular creek before. So my question is, how many people did they lose in Iceland? What could have possibly happened to make it comparable to losing 173 people to a massive robot lobster? Watching it again at this scene, I was like, they should really call off the entire expedition because there's like 10% of them left. This is an unmitigated disaster. Not that we necessarily need more evidence for these mercenaries being bad people. But so we know that Vinny tricks Milo saying, oh, you drank nitroglycerin, don't move. Best prank I've ever seen. Mole says, boom. And it turns out that prank must have been even better than we thought, because we know Vinny packed nitroglycerin. He told Milo that at the beginning.

Later on, when they get to the roadblock, he says, I could unroadblock that, wish we had some nitroglycerin, which means he doesn't have it anymore, which means he must have actually given it to Milo. Or he was so dedicated to the prank that he dumped it somewhere. So that Milo, if he looked for it, wouldn't find it. But the prank paid off instantly. he also could have left it on the sub maybe he didn't get all of his explosive pretty good prank so yeah then we get the one humanizing scene where they finally all make camp together and kind of talk about their past it's kind of the the one bonding scene between the crew i really really love how mole gets so excited and comments on the arrowhead story i think that that was a really nice touch because no one like milo thinks it was touching because he found an arrowhead and his grandpa got real excited about it but then later he found out it was just compressed shale and then no one else thinks this is interesting but mole walks by and

he's like that's so cute i thought he was talking about his steady bear no he's talking about the story because he loves minerals he's like that makes sense only a dumb little kid would confuse compressed jail for an arrowhead that's something that is uh really hammered down on in the sequel that mole really loves i know he's like i'm freaking detective he's like the sequel which is called atlantis milo's return should have really been called atlantis mole's return because he was definitely the main character of the sequel good he did everything in that movie that's funny because i i didn't have time to watch the sequel but i have read an entire plot synopsis that goes through it like point by point and mole is never mentioned he was the hero they don't act like he's important but he literally does all the things he saves everyone's life in that movie several times another thing about this scene is that i believe that milo only makes

friends with audrey i don't think even any of the others even sweet likes him even by the end of the none of them support him only audrey at the end yeah sweet as we know helps audrey up the cliff earlier but does not help milo even though he's sweet is perfectly friendly but he just doesn't care about milo so we know from this scene with the backstories that audrey has not been with them on a mission before milo asks about mole's backstory and then sweet says you don't want to know trust me audrey you shouldn't have told me but you did and i'm telling you you don't want to know how did audrey know why would she know his backstory better than my assumption is that she She joined the group recently and therefore was curious and asking about backstories. So she learned it. And Sweet, who is nice, but doesn't care about people, never asked. I think that Torvald's right. But yeah, I also thought that was weird.

They find the Atlanteans. Milo is really excited that they speak all the languages, which doesn't make any sense. Which doesn't make any sense. Not even like, I love how they explain it away with the line. They must speak some sort of a root dialect. And I'm like, well, that means nothing. And then he adds, like the Tower of Babel. Another place unproven to exist. So, but he's super excited. Helga says, someone's having a good time. Rourke says, like a kid at Christmas. Then Helga gets a strange look on her face, almost guilty. I think she's conflicted between her mercenary occupation and her seasonal role as Santa Claus, which he reminded her of. She's like, he is a kid at Christmas. We can't betray him. And also there are people living here. They're like kids at Christmas too. That is what I thought your second piece of evidence would be. That's my second and last piece of evidence for Helga is Santa Claus.

She reacts to the word Christmas with a look of guilt and betrayal. But what about when Milo screamed, Jiminy Christmas, it's a machine. Why didn't they show her then? Well, you know, she was busy translating Rourke's orders at that point, which is a full-time job because it makes no sense.

So after she gets over her crisis of conscience with Christmas, she then says, Commander, there were not supposed to be people down here. This changes everything. And then he says, this changes nothing. And I like that conversation because, first of all, it's the only time that they even reference the fact that, like, maybe we should be concerned about these people. No one mentions it ever again. And also, he's right. Doesn't change anything. They continue with their plan exactly as was. Right. Which proves that it changed nothing, that this was Whitmore's plan. He hired them to do. Rourke is not the mastermind here. He's just a military guy following orders. He's not some guy who's going to betray his employer. Then they get taken to meet the king who Torvald hates. Kida's dad is such a freaking hypocrite. Like, so she brings them in and he's like, hey, Kida, look, a bunch of people for us to kill. And then an instant later, he's like, whoa, hey, wait, you guys brought weapons? You monsters.

to kill us like how dare he this man first of all is a total warmonger who brought about the entire destruction of his empire with his warmongering as we learn in the sequel like she says that he used his power to expand the borders of atlantis which caused the flood all that this means is that he was conquering people he was killing people and i mean he says that himself and he has banned the use of technology and forbidden the teaching of reading and writing so we don't know that here is what we know about language we know that prior to the flood people could read and write and after this big flood and the thing that happened in the sky and atlantis got lost forever no one can read and write so torvald is implying or suggesting that perhaps everyone in the entire community knew how to read and write, including the king. And then he banned the teaching. But even if that were true, we know that Atlanteans are very long lived. So even if

you ban the teaching in the future, there would still be tons of people around who know how to read. Exactly. And so what this means is not that they all just forgot how to read and write, or even that he forbid the teaching of reading and writing. It means that when we see that scene at the very beginning where the kind of like stone monsters clap and then spread out their hands and it makes a barrier. It cuts people off, right? There are people who are right on the edge. So you're saying it cut off like the college district? Well, maybe. It cut off everyone who knew how to read and write. And that might sound really unrealistic. But why would they keep all the people who know how to read and write in one area? Why didn't everyone know how? It's actually not that uncommon. There are different types of languages, a phonetic language like English, where you have symbols that stand for each sound,

is considered the easiest to learn. And so typically societies that have a phonetic language like English, it's not a big status symbol to know how to read and write it. It's not something that's protected or kept from being other people learning it. Everyone is kind of expected to know it. Whereas you have other types of languages that are like more complicated that use signs for words. And those languages usually tend to have their writing systems be secretive. only a small group of people is supposed to learn them. And so we would have to assume that this society has that kind of reading or writing system, because obviously, otherwise, why doesn't everyone know how to read? But then you might say, well, the king surely would know how to read because he's an elite, right? Well, I would argue, no, that's not necessarily true, because oftentimes kings want to delegate stuff. So it's just like you read me the list of stuff.

And we have evidence of societies like that. For example, I'm doing my master's thesis on kippus, knotted cords, which recorded information in the Inca empire, and the Inca kings could not read kippus. That was the job of a very specific set of people called the Kipu Kayumuks, and they were the only people in the entire empire who could read kippus, and they taught their sons. One son, and that was it. And it was passed patrilineally. And so there was only a very small group of people in the entire empire that could read these specific types of kippus. Now, granted, there are other types. And so, for example, if all these people who were kippukaya mux happened to live, you know, 10 blocks away from the king, and then there was a stone monster that put his hands up and blocked off the city five blocks away from the king, then everyone who knows how to read and write would now be dead. And so that's my theory for how the reading and writing system worked in Atlantis.

Great. So Rourke has the missing page. It must have been given to him by Whitmore because he doesn't like the journal. He prefers a good Western. They seem to know something about what is on this page. It just has pictures of a crystal. That's not enough to tear it out. There's lots of random pictures in this book. So I believe that this page was at least somewhat translated by Thaddeus. And that's when he turned against Whitmore because he was like, wait, there are probably people down there. This thing is their heart. It's the heart of Atlantis. we can't steal it. And then that's when Whitmore had to have Thaddeus killed and he took that page. This is important evidence because there's only two people on earth who can translate Atlantean and that is Milo and Thaddeus Thatch. And Milo has never seen this page. And since they know what's on this page, then it must have been translated by Thaddeus Thatch.

That's the only explanation. Rourke would argue, what's there to know? It's big, it's shiny, it's going to make us all rich. Well, yeah, because that's what Whitmore told him. Yeah. I actually agree with you, though. I think this is pretty strong evidence because, to our knowledge, even though Rourke was there when they dug up the journal, like, we only have evidence of ever Thaddeus Thatch having it and Whitmore having it. Thatch certainly wouldn't have just let Rourke tear a page out of it and not notice, right? You see how obsessed Milo is with this. I can't believe Thaddeus would be any less interested. And so clearly it was when the journal was in Whitmore's care that this page was stolen. And why would Whitmore have just given the journal to Rourke and not bothered to see what he was doing? Like he knew full well that Rourke took this this page. And that was part of his deception of Milo.

When Milo first pops his head up, he's not quite sure what's going on. He's like, hey, guys, what's going on? What's what's with all the guns? And then he realizes, oh, I'm such an idiot. This is just another treasure hunt for you. You're after the crystal. The most evil face ever. Yeah, I know. Almost so evil. He's like, yes, killing time. Yes. And so I did want to point out that everyone is there in this scene. Right. So this indicates that this was not just like a hidden thing that suddenly Rourke had this idea and was like, hey, let's go with this. This was known. The entire crew had been planning this except for Milo. Right. And the person who set this all together is Whitmore. So it makes sense that he planned it. And then, of course, Rourke's answer to all this is that, you know, it was on a need to know basis. And well, now, you know, had to be sure you were one of us. And so us indicates all of the crew and Whitmore, and he's thinking perhaps now Milo, except Milo then refuses to join them.

So I wanted to point out that Helga, as evil as she may seem, does at least value human life. When Milo points out that taking the heart of Atlantis would kill all the Atlantans, she says, knowing that, I would double the price. And there's no reason for her to say that other than that, well, if we're killing a lot of people, we might as well double the price. Because that doesn't make it worth more to anyone else. No, exactly. She's like, I don't want to do this, so I better get more money for it. Yeah, well, Rourke says, I was thinking triple, so he values more him, too. He really cares about them. If he's going to compromise his morals, he might as well get a lot of money. Rourke doesn't have morals.

Finney says, we've done a lot of things we're not proud of. Robbing graves, plundering tombs, double parking, but nobody ever got hurt. Well, maybe somebody got hurt, but nobody we knew. So I would argue we already know that around like 170 people died when the ship fell down. People have definitely gotten hurt. And it's happened before. And it's happened before. And so I think Vinny, by nobody we knew, essentially just met the essential people. No main characters. The crew would know their names. Yeah, no main characters have gotten hurt. Thaddeus Thatch was the main character who's in the picture. But I don't think that the entire crew was in on Thaddeus Thatch's death. I think Whitmore and maybe Rourke did that on their own. So they don't know that he died from being murdered. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So this is where we learn that Audrey is Milo's only real friend. Everyone else just stays because of Audrey and they're her friend.

Audrey has a lot of real friends. Milo does not. That's one. So the heart of Atlantis and any of the Atlantean crystals that presumably came from it have the ability to make you not age. And this, I believe, is why Whitmore wants it so bad. I think that was in the page that Thaddeus translated for him. You think he's after a fountain of youth. When Milo meets him, Whitmore is clearly obsessed with extending his longevity. He is obsessively doing yoga. Which was not popular back in 1914. Exactly. And he's really good at it. He's like the most freaking flexible man on earth. He also thinks to think that yoga is Tai Chi sometimes. It doesn't matter. But either way, he's doing it to try and keep himself young and spry. And he's very dedicated to it because nothing will interrupt him. And he clearly does it many times a day, every day, because he's so good at it. So I'm just saying he really wants to extend his longevity.

And that's why he wants the heart of Atlantis, or at least some Atlantean crystal. And maybe he gets that in the end. Yeah, maybe. Well, also, he had those coelacanths, and those are known for being very long-lived. Yes, they're called a living fossil. He envies them. He's like, if only I was a coelacant.

Well, I know which Atlantean ship he'd get if he came down to drive. Well, I mean, but do they have something a little more sporty, like a tuna? Like Epona. So Whitmore also says to Milo at the beginning, he says he just wants to bring back a shred of evidence or perhaps he mispronounced a shard of evidence. A shard of evidence, you got it. He just wants one little crystal. I did want to take just a moment to talk about Kida and the crystal as we did a little bit at the beginning. Since I was a child, it's been baffling to me. According to the dad, in times of like distress, the crystal will take a member of the royal family to like power itself to deal with it. And we saw it do that before with her mom. So it absorbs Kida and then just turns into a crystallized Kida, which it hasn't done before. And then has her walk into a cage. And then just walks into the box that Rourke has. Why? I think the crystal wanted out.

It doesn't like being in Atlantis. This is a stupid dying society. It's like, let me out. Let's go. So the crew sided with Milo, at least the ones who stayed with him. But I don't think that means they would just go kill Rourke and Helga and Squad B, who they presumably knew. Like, they couldn't have always been wearing their gas masks and never speaking, right? From what I've seen, yes, yes, they could have.

Well, is there any evidence in Helga's death about her being Santa? Like, couldn't Santa have flown to safety? Not without his reindeer? Well, if she placed her finger on the side of her nose, then up the chimney or the volcano, she would rise. Which might be what happened. We never find out what happened to Helga. We don't see. And also, as I said, she's popular among fans. So one of the most popular fan fics are always written about how Helga managed to survive the balloon crashing. And the subsequent volcano eruption. Volcano. Yeah, you know, she just went up. She put a finger on the side of her nose. So when she's talking to Rourke and she's mad at him, first of all, she's pretty cool for just like jumping back up and kicking him in the face. But yeah, she's like, you promised me a percentage. And Rourke says, next time, get it in writing. But presumably she did have it in writing. She's a mercenary.

She wouldn't go on this mission without a contract, right? Maybe what he specifically meant, because he had just tried to kill her. So next time, get it in writing that I won't kill you. Right. Yeah, exactly. She's like, I thought that was a given. No, it was the same thing with Thaddeus Thatch. He never promised he wouldn't kill him, so he could kill him. Exactly. Wow. That's how they work. Rourke and Whitmore are two peas in a pod. They really are. So then Rourke throws her off the balloon and yells after her, nothing personal. And then a few minutes later, when she shoots him and ultimately leads to his death, she holds up her gun and goes, nothing. personal but it is personal it's definitely personal it is literally only personal do you know why Rourke turned into an evil crystal volcano man when he got cut that seems to just be a power of the crystal it turns you into a monster that can only go

it's a pretty cool noise all I can say is that Rourke must have been expecting that to happen because nothing surprises him. It's true. Audrey tells us. Well, he did keep fighting Milo, so he wasn't very surprised by it. I think it has nothing to do with the Shard of Glass. I think Rook could always do that. Whoa. He just activated his power and became Crystal right then. Oh, my goodness. So it just so happened that he got cut by Milo and he was like, oh, man, Milo actually got hit on his knee. You're like, Milo has a weapon now, so I better power up. No way. He's like, I am not left-handed.

Wow, Rorke is so much more powerful than I ever imagined. Rorke, just do that. He's like an X-Man.

Sorry, did we not explain? Did we not set that up? We thought you would get that. He's like, oh, Milo scratched me. Better become Crystal. He just hulks out.

Oh, man, Rourke, you crazy crystal monster man. Milo should have never activated his secret power.

Actually, it didn't really help him much in the end, though. No, not really. Well, in the end, all of the evil mercenaries get to go home with piles and piles of treasure. And Whitmore then covers up the entire thing like it was some kind of illegal activity. That was my last piece of evidence from this movie is that as they're going over the cover up, right, he's asking. It's an alibi scene. Exactly. And that he's just so used to it, right? Like that planning a cover up was not only like something he's done before, but it was an eventuality. Like he was planning for this. In fact, perhaps he had this cover up planned for someone else, maybe for Milo. And it's not like he's not holding a solemn moment for the fallen people. He's like, so what's the story? What happened to those, you know, dumb people who died on the explosion? Like, he doesn't care about all these presumably friends that he's worked with for years who are now dead.

I have one crazy alternate theory that's very the popcorn isn't real-esque. So the alibi scene, everything could be interpreted to be the truth. I knew you were going to say that. They say that Rourke went to pieces because of a nervous breakdown. They say that Milo went down with the sub and they say that Helga is just missing. It could be that Milo died at the very beginning. He did go down with the sub. And since Milo was their entire plan, this caused Rourke to lose his mind due to a nervous breakdown. And he imagined that Milo was with them the whole time. Milo was the popcorn. So it's all from Rourke's point of view. I get it. But then everyone else just randomly found treasure somewhere and brought it home? No, so they're dressed up because Whitmore made good on his offer and paid them a lot. And what they found was rocks, sponges and fish, just like Vinny says. And that's all. And this whole amazing Atlantis adventure was Rourke just going crazy.

I would just like to ask, Leif, don't you ever get tired of that theory? You have that theory all the time. No, the popcorn isn't real. You've never had that theory. This is brand new. But regardless of your interpretation, Whitmore's saying, I'm going to miss that boy. at least he's in a better place now, implies that either he thinks he went down with the sub or he believes that they did to him what he did to Thaddeus, that they killed him and just came back with all the treasure. So you think that Milo packaged up a crystal and wrote a note to be given to Whitmore in the eventuality of his death? I think it's like an alibi. That was like their suicide note that they made for Milo. But why? They want it to look like he died on the sub. So why would they make a fake note that he sent to them from beyond the grave? So maybe the mercenaries didn't know that Whitmore had planned all that.

Like, we already put together our own alibi. A suicide note for Milo. He was just digging through their stuff and happened to find their stupid alibi. And he's like, well, this is dumb. Also, he gets a crystal. He gets exactly what he wanted all along. Milo is so stupid that he sent him a crystal. He also got access to Atlantis, which we see in the next movie. Atlantis 2 is insane. I had never seen it before because I thought like it was probably the worst movie ever. And I got to say, this movie starts out and it is the worst movie ever made. But then it quickly becomes a completely different movie. And then it becomes three different movies. It's so weird. Yeah. So someone at Disney realized that Atlantis, unlike most Disney films, did not have an annoying animal sidekick. And they're like, we need to fix that. So it needs one of those. But this brings me to one thing I wanted to say about this movie is the weird Mandela effect I had watching it.

Because I had only seen the cover and for some reason my mind misremembered the cover and had made up a story where this was a movie about the crew of the Atlantis saving like a Nessie from happiness. that's exactly what i thought too it's so weird i did not think that i thought that's what it was about and then i was like i'm so crazy that it never showed up in this anthology i assumed it was going to be one of the stories never happened never happened they never had to save any baby animals i so i looked at the poster again story and i had just miss seen the poster i misremembered it and it's just the purple lava dog that is on their their boat with them and i thought it was way more important because it's on now this this is the poster i remember but yeah i think in my mind that thing being on the boat made the movie about that thing yeah i thought they were rescuing it from like hunters or something yeah i don't know why my brain made up i thought the exact

same thing as you this is so weird that both of us made that up in our minds mr whitmore ventures down into atlantis this time he's gotten a taste of the crystal and he wants more and he even says so he says that the crystal makes him feel 20 years younger but not young enough very quickly at the beginning of this movie whitmore emphasizes it was all rork's plan he sure does seems a little suspicious to pin everything on rork he's like your grandfather would be proud milo you discovered a lost empire you probably saved the world from rork's plans for the crystal what what did he think rork was planning he just wanted to sell the thing he was gonna give it to the kaiser i I think that this implies that Whitmore knows a lot more about Atlantean lore than he's letting on, because it turns out that using that crystal and other Atlantean artifacts, you actually can bring about the end of the world, as we find out later in this movie.

Several cargo ships have gone down in the North Atlantic, according to Whitmore, and the survivors say it was a sea monster. Like, this is so strange, especially when you're expecting a movie about them saving a pink dinosaur. It's so weird, dude. Like, it takes a hard left turn. This is a, like, Lovecraftian Cthulhu mystery. It is. It's like a detective novel set in a Lovecraft universe. It's so weird. Mole is, like, the biggest gosh darn hero ever. And saves them at every turn. He tells them they're about to fall off a cliff. They fall off. And then he tunnels through the cliff to come out underneath them to catch them. You know, he saves them four times in a row. First, the cliff. He saves them by putting hooks in the cliff. Then Audrey is falling. So he tunnels into the cliff and tunnels out below her. And then he saves them when the Kraken takes control of Audrey. He blows up the ceiling.

And then when there are a bunch of hypnotized villagers attacking them, he takes out all the villagers, like alone. He just takes them out. Yeah, he's pretty insane. The second story of this movie is a Western, and there's dust wolves attacking. So I'm going to try to prove that Whitmer set all of this up. We know that the Kraken probably originated from Atlantean technology, and that it has been controlling that town in Norway, but not doing anything up until recently. Just recently, it started attacking ships, but only cargo ships. Whitmore instigated this. He said, hey, steal cargo and I will buy it from you. When they get to Middle America for the next section, this evil god with wolf dust powers, he murders a strange cowboy capitalist. This cowboy capitalist is the exact kind of person who would work with whitmore he likes to find ancient artifacts and resell them at you know possibly marked up prices but always illegally then we get

to the third story which is that whitmore supposedly had a break-in that all happened while he was gone and yet he knows exactly what happened and how it happened and who did it yeah that's kind of weird he says that an ancient norwegian spear was stolen off of his wall It's not a Norwegian spear. It's an Atlantean spear. It was stolen by Odin himself. Oh no. It's actually not Odin. It is an old business rival named Erik Hellström. I think Whitmore put him up to this. I think Whitmore told him to take this spear. Erik Hellström is going to end the world with it until Milo and Kida stop them. And all of this is so wrapped up in Whitmore's life that i can't help but think that he had something to do with it and what do these events cause well they cause kita to use the spear to raise atlantis which would give him easy access to the crystal that he wants he says the world was never the same after that day it was much

much better for him yes he was able to get the crystal that he wanted there you go the last theory Nadia secret of blue water exactly so there's a big controversy that states that Disney plagiarized Nadia the secret of blue water there was a bit of an uproar from fans so much so that they actually pushed the company that made Nadia to sue Disney the pressure was so high that the company actually like commented on it and they were like yeah we're not gonna do that we don't want to get involved with Disney's lawyer never sue Disney the house of mouse always wins right Basically, arguments say that there are too many similarities between the two for it to have just been a coincidence. Disney says that no, no, no, it was just based on Jules Verne and 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea mythology. And since they were both based on that, then of course they were similar. Nadia's Secret of Blue Water started as a Hayao Miyazaki's adaptation of 20,000 Leagues

Under the Sea. Most fans of the plagiarism theory state Jules Verne never, ever, ever said anything about magic crystal-based technology being used by Atlanteans, and that is central to both series. I went ahead and watched the entire show. Oh gosh, why? It's okay, it's fine, it's just an anime. It's a bit outdated. It's got Team Rocket in it. It's got Team Rocket in it, let me tell you. The first evidence that I have for this is that Nadia's Secret of Blue Water does start out with basically the viking prologue um or the atlantis 2 opening um yeah it starts out with like sea monsters are attacking random ships oh no i noticed that too i watched the first episode the main character jean he is an inventor he absolutely does resemble milo he is excitable and blonde and wears glasses and is nerdy and loves science the character designs are very similar they are and he specifically wants to finance an expedition to look for his father

and explorer who went missing on a ship over a year ago during an Atlantic crossing. Also, Nadia, the other main character, she is a dark-skinned beauty from Atlantis, a lost civilization that uses magical glowing crystal technology. Which she keeps around her neck. She does, yes. She has shady military-style agents hunting her constantly because they want the technology. Some of them are just Team Rocket. Others are not Team Rocket. Okay, first I'm going to go through the differences with these two characters. So Jean, the boy, he's a French inventor who is a child, not a fully grown American linguist. Nadia, she's living in France, not in Atlantis, and she's performing in a circus as a lion tamer. She also does not know she's Atlantean. She has no idea where she was born and thinks she's from Africa. So, you know, they're not exactly the same. Evidence that the Team Rocket group in this, that Team Rocket plagiarized them, they definitely did.

Team Rocket, sorry, being from Pokemon. So there's a group of bad guys in this that consists of a redheaded, commanding, dominating lady, a tall, suave, classy man, and a short squat, slobby man with a Brooklyn accent in the dub. They are Team Rocket and they go around having Team Rocket-esque adventures the entire show. So there you go. They definitely, Pokemon ripped them off. I fully believe that. Even more than the Atlantis ripped off Nadia. Some other similarities. So through crazy circumstances, the two main characters do end up on a boat full of military people on an expedition. They also end up on an insane experimental tech submarine, which is the Nautilus captain by Captain Nemo himself, which does go to Atlantis. The second in command of the sub is a strong, dependable blonde woman named Electra. Is she Santa, though? No. She's not. Nadia does at one point in the show enter like a special Atlantean room with Jean

to commune with a giant white whale using her crystal, which is very similar to the scene when Kida and Milo see the heart of Atlantis for the first time. Major spoilers for Nadia, by the way. It is revealed near the end of the show that Nadia's dad caused the destruction of Atlantis and is also captain nemo um and it was due to the warmongering ways of the leadership of the society so this is very very similar to kita's dad and what he did nadia gets possessed by her crystal several times and enters a trance-like state and just stands there with her eyes glowing um at one point on on an island they she gets possessed and sucked into like an atlantean chamber and then she makes energy blast up around the island just like when the ancient king's heads blast up at the end of atlantis major differences i think nadia versus the plot of atlantis are entirely completely different couldn't be further from each other there are similar events but the

plots have nothing to do with each other i don't think disney specifically ripped it off as far as plot goes i do think disney maybe was inspired by some of the characters and events in the show but that's about it let's go over the theories so uh brida you first all right so for my theory that uh mr whitmore was evil i think that there's pretty good evidence to support it i think that there's not really any evidence that he's a good person so i would say it's basically confirmed i I mean, I think the one thing you said that makes this a really good theory is just that everyone who comes away from this movie thinks that Whitmore is a good guy just because he acts friendly and eccentric. But if you think about it for just a minute, it's obvious he's not a good guy. Yeah. Frida, do you think Helga Sinclair was, in fact, St. Nicholas, Santa Claus? Yeah, there were two really good pieces of evidence.

I don't know if I could argue against them. But also, no, definitely not. She's not Santa Claus. She's not Santa. Having heard the similarities and differences between Atlantis and Nadia's Secret of Blue Water, do you guys think Disney ripped them off? They took some inspiration, I think. Whether they deny it or not, someone had heard of Nadia's Secret of Blue Water. It's not as bad as like, say, the Lion King similarities or especially the Aladdin and the Thief and the Cobbler stuff. Which we should do an episode about. Yeah, we should. Well, thanks so much for listening. If you like our podcast, give us a review, a positive review even. And music for this episode was provided by Christine. And remember, the popcorn isn't real.